[JeffAVEWS]

Originally Posted by HalfWayIn

I wonder if Lady Lake will use eminent domain, take the lot, and make the path open to the public forever? That would be a perfect solution.

IMHO they don't have to take the lot, all they need to do is create an easement or codify the one that I believe already exists.

[Steve9930]

I would hope at the meeting today, Lady Lake makes a decision on this matter as the bickering back and forth has solved nothing, proved nothing, and may have done much harm to the relationships in the area. I'm really glad I'm up in Ohio.

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by EdV

And nowhere in this thread nor in any thread in the five years I have been a member here have I ever even implied that a non-resident was entitled to use any of the private facilities in The Villages.

This thread is about my contention that a golf cart right of way to and from Paradise Dr. was established back in 1998 and that the multi-modal paths are a natural extension of the public roads in TV.

But it’s ironic to hear people complaining about congestion and overcrowding after buying a home in a community with a 120,000 resident build out plan. Amazing

No irony, Ed, The Villages is designed to handle the golf cart traffic of it's residents, not all of the outlying communities. For The Villages cart traffic level, we are prepared.

Ed, if The Villages is required to provide cart path access all over because of the Paradise Dr. situation, would you be willing to pay for the extra costs this would mean to Village residents? Extra costs being an ID attendent at all pools, pickleball courts, tennis courts, golf courses, and so forth. The Villages does not require that type of manpower now but would surely require it if access is wide open to the paths.

Ed, if you owned your home in The Villages and not in Stonecrest, you would be on this side of the argument.

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

peachie - why do you think the developer had no problem providing access to that 'private development' - a very short cart path] to outside residents in the past 20 yrs?

Hi, Njbchbum. The developer didn't provide access to that private development for 20 years. There was a gate which was installed to block that access which I am given to understand was damaged and vandalized by golf cart owners outside The Villages so they could access The Villages. Lady Lake then got in the middle of it because of their public road, from what I can glean from these posts.

The Villages now wants to control this unwanted access by golf carts to golf cart paths maintained by The Villages and residents by reinstalling a gate on Village property.

This is information I have read on these posts, but bottom line is... none of us will know until the big guys sort it out.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Peachie

Hi, Njbchbum. The developer didn't provide access to that private development for 20 years. There was a gate which was installed to block that access which I am given to understand was damaged and vandalized by golf cart owners outside The Villages so they could access The Villages. Lady Lake then got in the middle of it because of their public road, from what I can glean from these posts.

The Villages now wants to control this unwanted access by golf carts to golf cart paths maintained by The Villages and residents by reinstalling a gate on Village property.

This is information I have read on these posts, but bottom line is... none of us will know until the big guys sort it out.

How do we know it was outsiders that damaged the gate?

[skip0358]

Originally Posted by mrdarcy

Fruitland Park residents cannot access TV golf cart trails at this point in time. But, if The Villages expands on the land across from Burke's BBQ, as is proposed, that land is in Fruitland Park's jurisdiction in Lake County. The Villages will construct infrastructure to support new villages, just as they have done in every other section of TV. This infrastructure will include multi-modal paths. Fruitland Park officials have already said they want their residents to have access to those new paths to get to the Colony Publix and other businesses by golf cart. The Villages representatives have told Fruitland Park officials that access on the multi-modal paths by non-Villages is a point on which TV will not negotiate.

TV representatives would have had a very difficult time defending this stance given the decades long unrestricted access on Paradise Drive, until said access was abruptly eliminated just prior to the meeting with Fruitland Park officials. Now it remains to be seen how negotiations with Fruitland Park will proceed. Sumter County and Wildwood officials can see the ways in which TV provides A LOT of revenue to local businesses, and they, therefore, have decided to concede some of their "We Want" points in negotiations with TV representatives.

I agree with Gracie that the Morses are smart business people. Look around you. How else do you think TV was built? By lazy, selfish louts? No. In most developments the Developer makes all manner of promises and then bolts outta there never to be seen or heard from again, especially when problems and the inevitable lawsuits arise. In our case, Gary Morse and the Morse family still live in the midst of all the rest of us. They live in the middle of TV. Yes, they are billionaires, but they live here. I suspect they too care about the conditions where they live just as much as each of us does.

The Developer very much deserves credit for maintaining our investment--our home's value--through his policies and business practices. I'll be much more worried about the future of TV when the Morse clan decides they would rather live in some other community, in some other state, in some other country. I, for one, am thoroughly delighted the Morses still live here. I'm OK with my neighbors being billionaires, as long they remain invested in what the place looks like.

Yes I read the minutes from the meeting. TV even if expanded is still going to be a long way from Fruitland Park golf cart area. I believe your going to see a trade off if TV gets permission to build. I saw where it was stated that improvements would be made to Racetrack Road area I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see 466A get finished if TV gets what it wants just like 466 was finished by TV. I can truly understand NOT wanting outsiders using the golf cart trails or Multi Model paths as there already quite busy and the paths are maintained by us. JMO

[EdV]

Originally Posted by Peachie

No irony, Ed, The Villages is designed to handle the golf cart traffic of it's residents, not all of the outlying communities. For The Villages cart traffic level, we are prepared.

If The Villages wasn't designed to handle non resident traffic it should never have been organized under the CDD laws. If you want to build a private community do it with private funds. The fact that you and other residents didn't think about the consequences of purchasing a home in a CDD doesn't give you the right to declare it private.

Originally Posted by Peachie

Ed, if The Villages is required to provide cart path access all over because of the Paradise Dr. situation, would you be willing to pay for the extra costs this would mean to Village residents? Extra costs being an ID attendent at all pools, pickleball courts, tennis courts, golf courses, and so forth. The Villages does not require that type of manpower now but would surely require it if access is wide open to the paths.

I already answered this in another thread. But in case you missed it, Stonecrest does not need to use any of the amenities in TV. We have all of them already. If that's what you're really worried about you should be concentrating your efforts on thwarting access to your amenities by the thousands of residents in surrounding communities that have no amenities but have access to TV in their cars.

Originally Posted by Peachie

Ed, if you owned your home in The Villages and not in Stonecrest, you would be on this side of the argument.

Absolutely not. It would be hypocritical of me to do so.

But I'll grant you one thing, you are tenacious.

[deltaguy]

Originally Posted by Peachie

No irony, Ed, The Villages is designed to handle the golf cart traffic of it's residents, not all of the outlying communities. For The Villages cart traffic level, we are prepared.

Ed, if The Villages is required to provide cart path access all over because of the Paradise Dr. situation, would you be willing to pay for the extra costs this would mean to Village residents? Extra costs being an ID attendent at all pools, pickleball courts, tennis courts, golf courses, and so forth. The Villages does not require that type of manpower now but would surely require it if access is wide open to the paths.

Ed, if you owned your home in The Villages and not in Stonecrest, you would be on this side of the argument.

Wow! Since I haven't a clue who either one of you are I can only comment on my assessment of these comments. The last post would make it seem that this dirt path or whatever it is has more traffic than I-75. Actually, my guess would be that the traffic is minimal and very few outsiders are using this back way into TV for clandestine purposes. So what if a couple of cheaters use a community pool they are not entitled to use. Who cares if a couple of outsiders let their dogs run and crap in a Dog Park. Who cares if they visit our restaurants, movies etc. and spend a few bucks in our community. The same Residents who complain about this kind of stuff are probably oblivious to Villagers who dig up newly planted flowers in common areas to replant in their own yards. Helping themselves to material that is not theirs at construction sites. (Haven't seen it? Open your eyes) Bottom line, what's the big deal? This whole thing has been a joke that makes the folks who perpetrated it, for whatever reasons, look like a bunch of very rich jerks!

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Peachie

Hi, Njbchbum. The developer didn't provide access to that private development for 20 years. There was a gate which was installed to block that access which I am given to understand was damaged and vandalized by golf cart owners outside The Villages so they could access The Villages. Lady Lake then got in the middle of it because of their public road, from what I can glean from these posts.

The Villages now wants to control this unwanted access by golf carts to golf cart paths maintained by The Villages and residents by reinstalling a gate on Village property.

This is information I have read on these posts, but bottom line is... none of us will know until the big guys sort it out.

yup! i get it all up to the point that there was never an attempt to limit access after lady lake got into the mix...so why now and why not way back when? hmm......

[truered58]

If your roads were and cart paths were built with government tax free bonds then they are not private and that is why you can push a red or silver button at any gate and get in. They are not private, PERIOD!! Now if you would like us to pay a trail fee of $120.00 like you do a year I do not have a problem with that at all. Just saying.......Let's be happy please!!

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by deltaguy

Wow! Since I haven't a clue who either one of you are I can only comment on my assessment of these comments. The last post would make it seem that this dirt path or whatever it is has more traffic than I-75. Actually, my guess would be that the traffic is minimal and very few outsiders are using this back way into TV for clandestine purposes. So what if a couple of cheaters use a community pool they are not entitled to use. Who cares if a couple of outsiders let their dogs run and crap in a Dog Park. Who cares if they visit our restaurants, movies etc. and spend a few bucks in our community. The same Residents who complain about this kind of stuff are probably oblivious to Villagers who dig up newly planted flowers in common areas to replant in their own yards. Helping themselves to material that is not theirs at construction sites. (Haven't seen it? Open your eyes) Bottom line, what's the big deal? This whole thing has been a joke that makes the folks who perpetrated it, for whatever reasons, look like a bunch of very rich jerks!

Hopefully all this nonsense will be over in about 3 to 4 hours. If your going to the meeting might be best to where your Kevlar vest or take a few Valium.

I had to laugh about the flowers and construction materials. I'm always amazed on some of the objects in our community that sometimes sprout legs....LOL

[Sgtsixpack]

WOW-I read "The Manifesto" and thirteen pages of diatribe which had been suggested by a "friend". I have seen and listened to community organizers in action and heard the rallying cries to the masses to voice their opinion to Government. The bad guy is the "developer". The "good guys" are the outside agitators. And the sheep will go to the meeting- BAAH BLA BAH and then it will be over. The gate will be put up and those that vandalize shall be photographed on the cameras and rightfully prosecuted. Sanity will return and The Village lifestyle experiment shall continue.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by Peachie

Hi, Njbchbum. The developer didn't provide access to that private development for 20 years. There was a gate which was installed to block that access which I am given to understand was damaged and vandalized by golf cart owners outside The Villages so they could access The Villages. Lady Lake then got in the middle of it because of their public road, from what I can glean from these posts....

NJ, I'm sorry that you are being deliberately misguided on this. But if you want the truth, here it is. If you look at the agenda for tonight's meeting, around in the middle of that document, you'll find the engineering drawings for the approved cart path. There are no gates shown in those very detailed drawings and nowhere in the text of the plan was any such gate mentioned.

So whenever those gates were installed, it was unauthorized just like the wall was. If the gates were vandalized by having the arms removed it was likely by Stonecrest residents. After all, TV does not have a monopoly on hooligans. Nevertheless, it was unauthorized.

And if an approved golf cart throughway does not constitute a right of way through there I don't know what will.

[Peachie]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

Hopefully all this nonsense will be over in about 3 to 4 hours. If your going to the meeting might be best to where your Kevlar vest or take a few Valium.

I had to laugh about the flowers and construction materials. I'm always amazed on some of the objects in our community that sometimes sprout legs....LOL

I don't know if this post bothers anyone else but it sure does me. Why are you suggesting that people wear a bullet proof vest to a public meeting. Are you threatening people or trying to instigate violence, Steve. This is the worst post I've ever read.

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by deltaguy

Wow! Since I haven't a clue who either one of you are I can only comment on my assessment of these comments. The last post would make it seem that this dirt path or whatever it is has more traffic than I-75. Actually, my guess would be that the traffic is minimal and very few outsiders are using this back way into TV for clandestine purposes. So what if a couple of cheaters use a community pool they are not entitled to use. Who cares if a couple of outsiders let their dogs run and crap in a Dog Park. Who cares if they visit our restaurants, movies etc. and spend a few bucks in our community. The same Residents who complain about this kind of stuff are probably oblivious to Villagers who dig up newly planted flowers in common areas to replant in their own yards. Helping themselves to material that is not theirs at construction sites. (Haven't seen it? Open your eyes) Bottom line, what's the big deal? This whole thing has been a joke that makes the folks who perpetrated it, for whatever reasons, look like a bunch of very rich jerks!

James Q. Wilson, a famous social scientist authored the "Broken Windows" theory on crime and its proliferation. In a very short but precise excerpt the theory held as follows:

In Mr. Wilson’s metaphor —(in a neighborhood) "when a window is broken and someone fixes it, that is a sign that disorder will not be tolerated. But “one unrepaired broken window,” they wrote, “is a signal that no one cares, and so breaking more windows costs nothing.” I have understated the theory to make it brief for this forum. Feel free to explore it in detail. Volumes have been written about it and it does apply to The Villages.

William Bratten, the former NYPD Commisioner who is given credit for significantly improving conditions in NYC was a disciple of Wilson's "Broken Window theory'.

Your suggestion of, "[I]So what if a couple of cheaters use a community pool they are not entitled to use. Who cares if a couple of outsiders let their dogs run and crap in a Dog Park."[/I], is a spot on example and precisely the attitude that causes crime, decay and loss of property values in communities.

It is not a rich person problem as you arrogantly state. It is a problem for everyone who desires to live in a safe, secure, clean community.

Have a nice evening.