[Leafpoker]

Never forget, that all this was a plan via the developer. Ther constant goal is to make money. Any way they can, legally or illegally. ( it is only illegal if you get caught). To get those dollars out our wallet is there goal. We just want no hassles, we are tired of hassle in our lives. We just want finish out our golden years with what time we have here on earth in a peaceful life, so just take my money! Well they know that and will take take take! I am very grateful for the IRS being a watchdog. There a reasons they are stalling with the ball on future building. When you get caught.with your hand in the cookie jar you lay low. I hope the IRS prevails. 355 million plus fines will come out our pockets like it or not. I have committed a mortal sin here, I said something negative about this facade of paradise. I just thank the IRS for pulling back curtain of utopia and showing the slimy underbelly that is the foundation thievery that has taken place.

[villagegolfer]

Originally Posted by Leafpoker

Never forget, that all this was a plan via the developer. Ther constant goal is to make money. Any way they can, legally or illegally. ( it is only illegal if you get caught). To get those dollars out our wallet is there goal. We just want no hassles, we are tired of hassle in our lives. We just want finish out our golden years with what time we have here on earth in a peaceful life, so just take my money! Well they know that and will take take take! I am very grateful for the IRS being a watchdog. There a reasons they are stalling with the ball on future building. When you get caught.with your hand in the cookie jar you lay low. I hope the IRS prevails. 355 million plus fines will come out our pockets like it or not. I have committed a mortal sin here, I said something negative about this facade of paradise. I just thank the IRS for pulling back curtain of utopia and showing the slimy underbelly that is the foundation thievery that has taken place.

I bet you don't go to Crispers!!!~

[EdV]

For the rational members of this forum, be advised that the IRS has not in any way even insinuated that anything illegal has been identified in their audit.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Leafpoker

Never forget, that all this was a plan via the developer. Ther constant goal is to make money. Any way they can, legally or illegally.........I am very grateful for the IRS being a watchdog.......I hope the IRS prevails. 355 million plus fines will come out our pockets like it or not......I just thank the IRS for pulling back curtain........

Oh good grief.....the "Beneficent" IRS....

And what makes you think the IRS's "constant goal" is not "to make money...any way they can"?????

It's all about the political power to be grabbed by the power/money mongers on either side.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

For the rational members of this forum, be advised that the IRS has not in any way even insinuated that anything illegal has been identified in their audit.

Nice to have someone comment who knows what they are talking about and uses a rational approach to the issues . Some of the speculation contained is these posts are absolutely baseless, and made with little knowledge of the law. Do we have an issue to watch? Yes. Is the sky falling? Surely no.

Thanks Ed-- I, for one, appreciated your well though out Posts.

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

For the rational members of this forum, be advised that the IRS has not in any way even insinuated that anything illegal has been identified in their audit.

For the rational ones.......with apologies to Rudyard Kipling for contextual editorial license ......

If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise ........

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools .........

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

To the men and women of TOTV who contribute time and keystrokes for the benefit, enlightenment, information and welfare of so many......

"If" by Rudyard Kipling unedited.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

[Challenger]

Cabo 35-

Wish I had said that

[villagegolfer]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Cabo 35-

Wish I had said that

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Basically the same thing.

The class-action lawsuit focused on the lack of an adequate provision for depreciation when calculating the present value of the income stream that was used to value the assets. Had the present value been properly calculated (assuming that present-value methodology is even appropriate), the sale price would have been lower. That is just another way of saying that the assets were overpriced.

In fact, the whole thrust of the class-action lawsuit was that the Developer overpriced the assets. As a consequence, after paying interest on the bonds used to finance the purchase, the VCCDD didn't have enough cash to maintain the amenity facilities-- thus, the deterioration that provoked the lawsuit.

In other words, the whole thrust of the class-action lawsuit was alleged overpricing by the Developer. Why else do you think that the Developer had to pony up the $40 million?

Let me add this into the mix....Some one on behalf of the residents needs to file an action to watch out and protect our interests. The District is being accused of wrong doing which the residents ahd no knowledge, no involvement or control and hence creates a conflict of sorts between the residents and the district. I do not believe we should be using the amenties fees to defend this lawsuit. The POA continues to sit on the fence . Why? If the district was negligent in their dealings don't they have some sort of liability insurance for that and shouldn't they contact their insurance company to see if they will cover this situation? I wonder if the POA had asked the district about this insurance stuff since they are the watch dog group for residents? I wonder why the POA doesn't get its attorney(s) involved to see what is best for us? We may be losing some important time and or opportunities to direct this legal action away from us and point it to where it belongs. If the information is accurate in the POA Alert then what occurred is that the Developer threw a big party that overstated profits and not only were we not invited also are getting stuck with the bill

[EdV]

Rubicon, let me see if I’ve got this straight. Your solution is to start a class action suit against the two CDDs that would require legal fees to defend against so that you could get them to stop paying legal fees to defend themselves ?

Wow.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Let me add this into the mix....Some one on behalf of the residents needs to file an action to watch out and protect our interests. The District is being accused of wrong doing which the residents ahd no knowledge, no involvement or control and hence creates a conflict of sorts between the residents and the district. I do not believe we should be using the amenties fees to defend this lawsuit. The POA continues to sit on the fence . Why? If the district was negligent in their dealings don't they have some sort of liability insurance for that and shouldn't they contact their insurance company to see if they will cover this situation? I wonder if the POA had asked the district about this insurance stuff since they are the watch dog group for residents? I wonder why the POA doesn't get its attorney(s) involved to see what is best for us? We may be losing some important time and or opportunities to direct this legal action away from us and point it to where it belongs. If the information is accurate in the POA Alert then what occurred is that the Developer threw a big party that overstated profits and not only were we not invited also are getting stuck with the bill

I agree 100% with your concerns.

It particularly irritates me that the VCCDD is paying the legal-defense costs out of the amenity fees, and I wish that the POA had spoken out more forcefully on that issue. However, in fairness to the Developer and the VCCDD, their contractual obligation is to continue to furnish the amenities at the pre-existing levels, and I have not noticed a degradation as a result of the drain on amenity-fee revenue from paying the legal-defense costs.

In other words, the problem is that AT THIS POINT, it seems awfully hard to figure out what legal action the POA or anybody else can take. Also, where would the money for attorney fees come from? (You refer to the POA's attorney, but there is no such person on retainer.) I think, that by:
1. informing residents of the facts of the IRS investigation, at meetings and through the POA Bulletin;
2. starting a legal defense fund; and
3. writing the IRS and asking that the IRS be sensitive to the impact of its actions on Village residents
the POA has done about all it can for the time being.

It is unfortunate (or perhaps deviousness on the Developer's part) that the Developer structured The Villages so that we do not have a regular home owners' association-- with mandatory membership, dues, and the legal power to represent us. Then, when the POA became a nuisance to him, the Developer supported and subsidized a rival organization, the VHA in order to weaken the POA.

I have personally expressed my concerns about the IRS investigation to the POA officers and board members. I am personally convinced that they are both aware of, and concerned about, the situation. Let's also remember that these folks are all volunteers, and the ultimate responsibility for protecting our interests rests with us, not with them. Do I always agree with the POA? No. But in this kind of situation, it's the only organization we have.

I would suggest you attend the next POA meeting (I will be out of town, myself or I would be there) and ask the kind of questions that you raise here. They are good ones and thought-provoking, but I think that we all need to be aware to keep in mind that this Forum is a good way to exchange thoughts and information, especially in the absence of a genuine newspaper in The Villages. But posting, in and of itself, doesn't get anything done. If the IRS investigation does "go south", we are all going to have to get off behinds and away from our keyboards and take some kind of action ourselves.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Advogado

I agree 100% with your concerns.

It particularly irritates me that the VCCDD is paying the legal-defense costs out of the amenity fees, and I wish that the POA had spoken out more forcefully on that issue. However, in fairness to the Developer and the VCCDD, their contractual obligation is to continue to furnish the amenities at the pre-existing levels, and I have not noticed a degradation as a result of the drain on amenity-fee revenue from paying the legal-defense costs.

In other words, the problem is that AT THIS POINT, it seems awfully hard to figure out what legal action the POA or anybody else can take. Also, where would the money for attorney fees come from? (You refer to the POA's attorney, but there is no such person on retainer.) I think, that by:
1. informing residents of the facts of the IRS investigation, at meetings and through the POA Bulletin;
2. starting a legal defense fund; and
3. writing the IRS and asking that the IRS be sensitive to the impact of its actions on Village residents
the POA has done about all it can for the time being.

It is unfortunate (or perhaps deviousness on the Developer's part) that the Developer structured The Villages so that we do not have a regular home owners' association-- with mandatory membership, dues, and the legal power to represent us. Then, when the POA became a nuisance to him, the Developer supported and subsidized a rival organization, the VHA in order to weaken the POA.

I have personally expressed my concerns about the IRS investigation to the POA officers and board members. I am personally convinced that they are both aware of, and concerned about, the situation. Let's also remember that these folks are all volunteers, and the ultimate responsibility for protecting our interests rests with us, not with them. Do I always agree with the POA? No. But in this kind of situation, it's the only organization we have.

I would suggest you attend the next POA meeting (I will be out of town, myself or I would be there) and ask the kind of questions that you raise here. They are good ones and thought-provoking, but I think that we all need to be aware to keep in mind that this Forum is a good way to exchange thoughts and information, especially in the absence of a genuine newspaper in The Villages. But posting, in and of itself, doesn't get anything done. If the IRS investigation does "go south", we are all going to have to get off behinds and away from our keyboards and take some kind of action ourselves.

Oh ye of little faith... If you are upset concerning the use of amenity fees being used to defend this IRS action then you and EdVinMass might consider this. While the POA does not have an attorney on retainer they do consult with one or two. Secondly it was stated that the Developer is not a party to this IRS investigation and I can't think of a faster and better way than to bring an action that protects the interests of the residents from negligence of the District, its officers, superviusors, etc for any mistakes they may have made when purchasing bonds and also any responsibility that the Developer had during these business transactions and by naming the Developere they are not a part of the action. If the insurance company accepts defending this matter they do so with defense being paid from the district's liability policy. this suggestion is no different than your being in an auto accident getting injured and suing the driver of the car you occupied. that driver may be your neighbor but if you are injured and facing loss of wages, serious and lastly injuries you would sue. why because you are really suing the driver's insurance company and that's why he bought car insurance in the first place. The same applies to people who run governments or corporation and get insurance to protect them if they do something wrong.
From a strategic point by filing an acton residents are saying to the Developer and/or the district if you did something wrong know we are coming after you to pay the bill. If the insurance company accepts the claim then it will come out of their pockets. One point here if the district did not contact their insurance company about this they may have problems. finally by filing the action may great a motive for the Developer to come forward and make this situation right. the Developer surely will not volunteer

[EdV]

If you really expect people to read your ramblings, you should at least consider breaking it up into a few paragraphs.

But instead of bandying the ‘class action suit’ idea around here, why not contact the attorneys that got a settlement of the previous suit. Let us know what they have to say about your plan, we’re all ears.

Anderson & Anderson
11950 County Road 101 # 201
The Villages, FL 32162-9334
Phone: (352) 391-9613

You are of course the type of person that will back up their words with action, right?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

If you really expect people to read your ramblings, you should at least consider breaking it up into a few paragraphs.

But instead of bandying the ‘class action suit’ idea around here, why not contact the attorneys that got a settlement of the previous suit. Let us know what they have to say about your plan, we’re all ears.

Anderson & Anderson
11950 County Road 101 # 201
The Villages, FL 32162-9334
Phone: (352) 391-9613

You are of course the type of person that will back up their words with action, right?

EdVinMass> I didn't mean to offend you or anyone. One option in the decision model is to do nothing. I happen not to agree with that choice here. I detest lawsuits for more reasons than you can imagine. But residents need
an independent review and assessment of their financial exposure.
I personally believe that the Developer, Village Voice, Daily Sun and POA monitor threads on TOTV and rightly so. I am not an officer of any organization here and have no authority to act in behalf of residents. So your comment concerning my backing up words with actions is a little unkind

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by rubicon

EdVinMass> I didn't mean to offend you or anyone. One option in the decision model is to do nothing. I happen not to agree with that choice here. I detest lawsuits for more reasons than you can imagine. But residents need
an independent review and assessment of their financial exposure.
I personally believe that the Developer, Village Voice, Daily Sun and POA monitor threads on TOTV and rightly so. I am not an officer of any organization here and have no authority to act in behalf of residents. So your comment concerning my backing up words with actions is a little unkind

While you have no authority to act on behalf of residents, you can always act on behalf of yourself.

I have explained previously why I don't think that a lawsuit, at this time, is feasible. You feel otherwise. As EdVin suggested, please go ahead and take the initiative. You can take the initiative by doing one or more of the following:
1. retain an attorney to sue on your behalf;
2. go to a POA meeting and explain why you think that the POA should bring a lawsuit now; or
3. if you really want to have some fun, raise your thoughts at a VHA meeting and try to talk the VHA into actually acting on behalf or residents when there is a conflict between the residents' interests and those of the Developer.

If you do anything along those lines, I sincerely wish you success. I just am doubtful that anybody can bring a successful lawsuit unless and until the amenity-system takes a hit because of the outcome of the IRS investigation. Unless and until that happens, what are your damages? If you can answer that and prove your damages, you probably have the makings for a successful lawsuit.