[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Advogado

As regards your two cents, I think that you are spot on.

Regarding your suggestion that the classes might be re-organized and recharacterized as RLG's: That could've been tried under the auspices of the charter school if the developer had wanted to do so. However, the operation of the adult education program would require a degree of involvement by the VCCDD or charter school that might make it hard to sustain the argument that it is a genuine club.

Remember, also, that the plaintiffs have not given up on screwing over the clubs. Plaintiffs are appealing the summary judgment dismissal of their claims against the clubs.

Personally, I would like to see the developer have the charter school keep the LLC open, continue to fight the lawsuit, and enlist the help of business groups like the Chamber of Commerce as well as citizens groups like the POA and VHA to mount an effort to amend the ADA to prevent this kind of lawsuit in the future--and maybe amend the laws throughout the US so that, as in other countries, the loser in a lawsuit pays the winner's attorney fees. That last change would stop a whole bunch of frivolous lawsuits. Little chance of any of this happening.

Little chance of changing the ADA. That would be wasting money like pouring sand down a rat hole.

Sometimes you cannot win. Then you do something else. As I said before, most of these classes are small. They could be held in peoples homes, many of them.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Little chance of changing the ADA. That would be wasting money like pouring sand down a rat hole.

Sometimes you cannot win. Then you do something else. As I said before, most of these classes are small. They could be held in peoples homes, many of them.

I have heard that the Genealogy Courses at the LLC were quite big.

And for this matter you just have to change the hearts and minds of these plaintiffs to accept reasonable accommodation by the Villages' developers. Harder said than done.

It will take different groups around the US working together to change how the ADA is interpreted. That can be done; it just takes organization, commitment and stubbornness. That 60 minutes segment from last Sunday night certainly will help a great deal with it as would Facebook and people getting involved.

[cavalier65]

Given that many residents enjoyed/benefited from classes at LLLC, it is a shame that political correctness destroyed it. Yet, it is gone and should remain so. The ADA supporters, Fed. Govt. enforcers, and liberal courts will never allow the LLLC, in whatever form, open up again without fulltime hearing signers or describers.

All official Villages organizations, such as CCDs, developer, etc., should keep away from this controversy so that residents to not have to pay fees and damages when the plaintiffs get their way. It will happen in the United States. That is who we are now. The minority(s) rule the majority in every situation. Get over it or change it!

[greatime]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I spent ten days at BYU Law School in 1982. Was there on a Merit Scholarship for non-Mormons. Dropped out. Then went to get speech training at the University of Nevada, Reno. And journeyed to the University of Denver to get a MA in Librarianship and Information Management in May of 1984. Eventually went back to law school at the U of MN (Class of 1989) to become a law librarian and fight for more practical materials in libraries for victims/survivors of crimes of all kinds. A struggle I have had to do since mid 1991 from outside of law librarianship looking in after the powers that be blacklisted me. Mainly so that the money could keep coming into these big law firms who have control of the conversation along with the conservatism of the legal profession. I had to enlist everyone I could think of to change that conversation by bringing in people from many disciplines and many walks of life. Movie stars, writers, comedians, singers, celebrities, scholars, social workers, psychiatrists, CEOs, victim/witness assistance providers, police, etc. My main motivation in this was to help survivors/victms of crimes due to a long history of personal experiences with victims/survivors of crimes. I have communicated with a lot of lawyers since 1991 about this work and with some who have been real a-holes about this; many have not. For instance, some of my fellow Law Student Class of 1989 members have not been all that friendly. And some incredibly creative hurdles have been thrown up against me over the past almost 26 years.

Wow, I am completely overwhelmed and confused! I admit to everyone I am new at this, but I spent hours reading every posting.

What I was able to absorb was that this started out as the LLC being closed down by 32 malcontent deaf people. Then it changed to it being voluntarily dismembered. Then everyone in the world chipped in with their own ideas on the matter with no ownership to facts. Now it has morphed into a, I am a lawyer and your not, so it seems, and a history from birth conception to current times of a lawyer. How about all the lawyers offering verbiage to these threads enter the case as "friends of the court?" Maybe it is too late?


Is this what these threads are supposed to be? I said I was confused! Why can't they be utilized by informing others of a problem and offering solutions. The use of FACTS should be the prerequisite. Of course opinions can be/should be used, but they should be noted at being opinion.

Again, I am completely confused. All of the above is my opinion.

[SALYBOW]

IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by SALYBOW

IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.

Give the Villages developers some time to fix this. With all the publicity generated by this thread and other news sources I really believe that they will go out of their way to remedy this problem of the LLC. It should not be that hard to get reasonable accommodations for those with various disabilities like hearing problems. Still copy and paste this thread of Facebook. That should get the word out. Spotlight this in other words.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by greatime

Wow, I am completely overwhelmed and confused! I admit to everyone I am new at this, but I spent hours reading every posting.

What I was able to absorb was that this started out as the LLC being closed down by 32 malcontent deaf people. Then it changed to it being voluntarily dismembered. Then everyone in the world chipped in with their own ideas on the matter with no ownership to facts. Now it has morphed into a, I am a lawyer and your not, so it seems, and a history from birth conception to current times of a lawyer. How about all the lawyers offering verbiage to these threads enter the case as "friends of the court?" Maybe it is too late?


Is this what these threads are supposed to be? I said I was confused! Why can't they be utilized by informing others of a problem and offering solutions. The use of FACTS should be the prerequisite. Of course opinions can be/should be used, but they should be noted at being opinion.

Again, I am completely confused. All of the above is my opinion.

Strange first post. I have been on here since July 2007 and many people know me on here. Probably one hundred or so in person too.

I like hearing the backgrounds of the lawyers or law librarians like me on this topic as it involves the law and a court case. Patent lawyers, tax lawyers, criminal defense lawyers, prosecutors, judges, etc., would probably each have a different spin on this Lifelong Learning Center case.

There are a lot of retired lawyers in the Villages and at least four or so I am aware of on TOTV.

This is my 22, 169 post so I have a lot of opinions with some facts thrown in too. And pretty much every post on this thread is someone's opinion unless they are a party in the case and then they are probably supposed to stay quiet about the whole thing.

[TheDude]

(6 posts a day, every day for 9 years.. wow)

Maybe the villages and talk a local university to bring a satellite school to TV.

The Learning Annex in NYC is still going strong, maybe something like that also.

(disclaimer, I am not going to read 66 pages of this thread, sorry).

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by SALYBOW

IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.

I find the amenities fees to be incredibly low when considering all that they cover. In addition to the golf courses, there are the dozens of recreation centers (with meeting rooms; many with bocce ball, pickleball, shuffleboard, horseshoes, etc.); dozens of swimming pools, Multi Modal Paths throughout the entire area, baseball fields, three Town Centers with daily free, live entertainment, and golfcart accessible shopping and dining. In addition the streets and the public areas are maintained in impeccable order and cleanliness. And there is no separate Homeowner's Association fee. Although I regret the loss of the LLC, it is only one factor in an impressive array of amenities.

So, if you feel constrained to leave The Villages due to the closing of the LLC, farewell. Since your house was already on the market, perhaps this was not the determining factor in your decision to move.

You may find that your newly selected development has similar fees, or even simply a Homeowner's Association fee that meets or is greater than the amenities fee in The Villages......and still without a Learning Center.

If the "artists around here" are so up in arms about the loss of the LLC, why don't they form a club and bring in the former art instructors to provide some classes for which the club members could pay? Or even do it informally in someone's home.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by SALYBOW

IMHO the developer might not realize that some people chose TV especially because of the LLC. I know I did. My husband can golf at any of the place around here: Spruce Creek, Stonecrest, Water Oak. etc. But I could not get LLL at them. With us putting our home on the market anyway, this may send us to a place that sells, homes more reasonably, without the amenity fee. We are looking around outside the Villages. TV may not lose a lot of current people, but not having the LLC will definitely be a detriment to some people to pay the amenity fee if they can't get what they want here anymore. I know the artist around here are up in arms. If TV wanted to do something, they would think of some way around it.
There is already some place which is thinking of doing this. Will have to look up where.
At LLC I learned watercolour, acrylics, cooking, knitting. drawing, and proper techniques to strengthen my core. All good classes. I have always stuck up for the developer, but they have lost my respect land for future development, without beefing up the infrastructure so why add another discouragement to the mix. Even the people that build in Feeney will need to come north for medical care, shopping and worshiping and they all will need to take Buena Vista and Morse.

I am sorry that you are leaving TV. I hope you find what you are looking for outside TV. The LLC was certainly a nice perk for Villagers but it had nothing to do with our amenity fees or being exclusive to The Villages residents. Anyone from anywhere could take classes. It cost non-residents a bit more, but the classes were available.

[dirtbanker]

8,800,000 a month does seem to go a long way...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by greatime

Wow, I am completely overwhelmed and confused! I admit to everyone I am new at this, but I spent hours reading every posting.

What I was able to absorb was that this started out as the LLC being closed down by 32 malcontent deaf people. Then it changed to it being voluntarily dismembered. Then everyone in the world chipped in with their own ideas on the matter with no ownership to facts. Now it has morphed into a, I am a lawyer and your not, so it seems, and a history from birth conception to current times of a lawyer. How about all the lawyers offering verbiage to these threads enter the case as "friends of the court?" Maybe it is too late?


Is this what these threads are supposed to be? I said I was confused! Why can't they be utilized by informing others of a problem and offering solutions. The use of FACTS should be the prerequisite. Of course opinions can be/should be used, but they should be noted at being opinion.

Again, I am completely confused. All of the above is my opinion.

And that is what a forum is all about!

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by CFrance

And that is what a forum is all about!

Telling people your opinion about something-- like the Lifelong Learning College.

Lawyers would be offering informed opinions but still just those for the most part.

There are facts in this massive case. I would hate to be a juror in that mess.

[greatime]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Strange first post. I have been on here since July 2007 and many people know me on here. Probably one hundred or so in person too.

I like hearing the backgrounds of the lawyers or law librarians like me on this topic as it involves the law and a court case. Patent lawyers, tax lawyers, criminal defense lawyers, prosecutors, judges, etc., would probably each have a different spin on this Lifelong Learning Center case.

There are a lot of retired lawyers in the Villages and at least four or so I am aware of on TOTV.

This is my 22, 169 post so I have a lot of opinionst with some facts thrown in too. And pretty much every post on this thread is someone's opinion unless they are a party in the case and then they are probably supposed to stay quiet about the whole thing.

Thank you for your response. However I am further confused as to why this was a strange post. Perhaps it was because I referred to reading your personal life history imbedded in a LLC article? I was confused and exhausted after reading some 600 posts and then coming across a completely personal life history. I would think after all these years and thousands of posts all of the people who know you would already be aware of your many accomplishments. I was questioning the proper "forum" for this information as I was attempting to obtain information on the LLC. But yet, you call my post strange. Please accept my apology if I offended you.

[Moderator]

The topic is the Lifelong Learning College and the recent lawsuit that caused its closure.

Please stay on topic.

Moderator