[Advogado]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Reading this thread reminds me of a great line by Claude Rains's Captain Renault in Casablanca. With apologies to the late Mr. Rains and the author of Casablanca, the Villages version might be, "Mr. Morse is being bashed." "Round up the usual suspects."

How sadly predictable.

To further quote Captain Renault, "I am shocked--shocked-- to find" that the Daily Sun has once again abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity and has buried a story of interest to Villagers because it reflects unfavorably on the Developer.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by Advogado

To further quote Captain Renault, "I am shocked--shocked-- to find" that the Daily Sun has once again abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity and has buried a story of interest to Villagers because it reflects unfavorably on the Developer.

Just an observation: I just went through your posting history, not all of them, but enough. You either have a naturally dark disposition or you can't stand the developer and will do anything in your power to show him in a bad light. You aren't jealous of his success are you? I'm sure you can find something nice to say about him and the absolutely wonderful community which is a result of his efforts. No one is perfect. Perhaps you can tell us what changes you would propose to make The Villages an even better place. You know, maybe something productive.

Like I said, just an observation.

[LELANDJANE]

Amen!

[swimdawg]

Originally Posted by Xavier

Just an observation: I just went through your posting history, not all of them, but enough. You either have a naturally dark disposition or you can't stand the developer and will do anything in your power to show him in a bad light. You aren't jealous of his success are you? I'm sure you can find something nice to say about him and the absolutely wonderful community which is a result of his efforts. No one is perfect. Perhaps you can tell us what changes you would make to The Villages an even better place. You know, maybe something productive.

Like I said, just an observation.

Hmmmmm.......very interesting.

[redwitch]

Sorry, don't see how this is bashing Gary Morse and his family. The fact is Morse, et al. were charged with various misdemeanors and felonies in Montana. Some have pled out, some have not. I'm not quite sure it is really news in Florida but it certainly is of interest to Villagers and I do believe that the Sun should cover the story -- not headlines, but at least a blurb somewhere as events progress.

And I'm still trying to figure out why Morse is being charged with bigger crimes (possible fines, jail time) than Rainey. From what I've read, Rainey did far worse than any member of the Morse family.

So, where's the bashing?

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Sorry, don't see how this is bashing Gary Morse and his family. The fact is Morse, et al. were charged with various misdemeanors and felonies in Montana. Some have pled out, some have not. I'm not quite sure it is really news in Florida but it certainly is of interest to Villagers and I do believe that the Sun should cover the story -- not headlines, but at least a blurb somewhere as events progress.

And I'm still trying to figure out why Morse is being charged with bigger crimes (possible fines, jail time) than Rainey. From what I've read, Rainey did far worse than any member of the Morse family.

So, where's the bashing?

Red,

If Adolf Schmitt from The Village of Hemmingway was charged with poaching in Wyoming would you expect it to be reported in the Daily Sun or discussed here on TOTV again and again and again? Of course you wouldn't. It just appears to me that many of these posters may want to somehow do additional harm to this particular group of people just because they happen to be connected to development and operation of The Villages. What's the big deal? I'm sure the justice system can take care of it. I choose not to besmirch their reputation any more than that. I feel that if they did the crime, let the law take care of it. Why would I want to rub their nose in it.

That's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I, much like you, don't agree with everything the developer does or doesn't do, but I respect his right to operate in the manner he decides is best for his enterprise. Would I try to occasionally influence his decisions? You can bet on it.

Xavier

[Tbugs]

Xavier,

You are right on this one. You are also right on your observation about Avogado. I mentioned that earlier and got jumped on by several posters. If Mark Morse killed an elk on his own property in Montana, why the heck should it bother us in The Villages?

[redwitch]

If Joe Blow down the street were arrested for poaching locally, it would be in the paper, with name, etc. in the police blotter at the very least. If Joe were arrested in southern Florida or another state, the odds are we wouldn't hear a thing. However, Mark Morse is not Joe Blow. Poaching, whether on his own land or the land of others, is illegal. Leaving carcasses to rot is not only illegal, it is immoral in my mind. The whole thing reeks and does say something about the ethics and morals of the man. That is something we, as Villagers and potential Villagers, have a right to know about. Not to condemn him but simply to help us decide if we want to risk our investment because the man running our development seems to be lacking morally. To me, it goes hand in hand with the IRS issues and the settlement -- it shows a need to be careful when dealing with the man and to take his promises with a very large grain of salt.

If the Sun wants to be considered even remotely as a newspaper and not just a TV PR thing, it needs to report all of the news that pertains to TV, the Villagers and, yes, the developer, not just the pretty stories. Doesn't need to be headlines, doesn't even need to be in the first section, but does need to be reported.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by redwitch

If Joe Blow down the street were arrested for poaching locally, it would be in the paper, with name, etc. in the police blotter at the very least. If Joe were arrested in southern Florida or another state, the odds are we wouldn't hear a thing. However, Mark Morse is not Joe Blow. Poaching, whether on his own land or the land of others, is illegal. Leaving carcasses to rot is not only illegal, it is immoral in my mind. The whole thing reeks and does say something about the ethics and morals of the man. That is something we, as Villagers and potential Villagers, have a right to know about. Not to condemn him but simply to help us decide if we want to risk our investment because the man running our development seems to be lacking morally. To me, it goes hand in hand with the IRS issues and the settlement -- it shows a need to be careful when dealing with the man and to take his promises with a very large grain of salt.

If the Sun wants to be considered even remotely as a newspaper and not just a TV PR thing, it needs to report all of the news that pertains to TV, the Villagers and, yes, the developer, not just the pretty stories. Doesn't need to be headlines, doesn't even need to be in the first section, but does need to be reported.

Red,

You always take a chance when you try to make a point through a written media. There is no way to insure how the tone comes across. Please know that my tone is casual and conversational.

I have always respected your opinion about most things, but I really must disagree on this matter. You appear to be saying that you want everyone here to sit in judgement, of another human being, beyond what the justice system metes out for something that may or may not have happened in a distant state? And, you may think this is right because he has money, status, influence and has developed where you live. You further appear to think that since he owns a newspaper he should be forced to reveal potentially unfavorable information about himself and his family. He owns the newspaper! Does he tell you how to run your business? Would you listen? You also must believe that, if he chooses, he should not use his newspaper as a TV PR thing. It's his newspaper.

We have options. We can quit subscribing to the Daily Sun. God knows that I, as a tried and true Democrat, dislike the Editorial Section and Opinion Pages. I could sell my house and move out of the Villages if I didn't like the developer. To treat him differently than I would my neighbor is wrong. I can make my own grown up choices and don't feel I need to hurt someone simply because I don't agree with something he allegedly does.

I am a fair minded center leaning liberal just speaking my mind. Oops, can I say that and not be in the Political Thread?

Peace,
Xavier

[Tbugs]

Xavier speaks correctly and to the point.

"We have options. We can quit subscribing to the Daily Sun. God knows that I, as a tried and true Democrat, dislike the Editorial Section and Opinion Pages. I could sell my house and move out of the Villages if I didn't like the developer. To treat him differently than I would my neighbor is wrong. I can make my own grown up choices and don't feel I need to hurt someone simply because I don't agree with something he allegedly does."

Redwitch and others, all of you are adults. You can make your choices. I am not advocating you move out but if you do not like the morals of the Developer and do not trust him with the financial decisions, you are not being forced to stay. You could make a profit on your house most likely if you decided to move - thanks to the Developer (whose morals you do not like). Also, no one is forcing you to buy the Daily Sun. Subscribe to the Orlando paper or any paper you want.

[graciegirl]

I just love to read such reasonable arguments back and forth, without name calling and with respect felt in each line. I am glad I quit political. I like this part of TOTV much better.

Good for you. All of you who recently posted.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by redwitch

If Joe Blow down the street were arrested for poaching locally, it would be in the paper, with name, etc. in the police blotter at the very least. If Joe were arrested in southern Florida or another state, the odds are we wouldn't hear a thing. However, Mark Morse is not Joe Blow. Poaching, whether on his own land or the land of others, is illegal. Leaving carcasses to rot is not only illegal, it is immoral in my mind. The whole thing reeks and does say something about the ethics and morals of the man. That is something we, as Villagers and potential Villagers, have a right to know about. Not to condemn him but simply to help us decide if we want to risk our investment because the man running our development seems to be lacking morally. To me, it goes hand in hand with the IRS issues and the settlement -- it shows a need to be careful when dealing with the man and to take his promises with a very large grain of salt.

If the Sun wants to be considered even remotely as a newspaper and not just a TV PR thing, it needs to report all of the news that pertains to TV, the Villagers and, yes, the developer, not just the pretty stories. Doesn't need to be headlines, doesn't even need to be in the first section, but does need to be reported.

The difference is that Joe Blow would be one of thousands of ordinary citizens who are charged with breaking the law every day. Gary Morse or any member of the Morse family or anyone connected with the Morse family are "celebrities" in central Florida. Celebrity news is, rightly or wrongly, typically covered in detail by the media, while ordinary people may show up in small print on the police blotter. The news of anything happening to the Morse's, good or bad, is and should be a topic of interest in this area and on TOTV, not so that people can bash them, or praise them, but because they are among the most important people in influencing the lives of Villagers, and thus their actions are noteworthy.

As to the point that the Daily Sun should report these things, I would argue that they have no obligation to do so. The Daily Sun is not a newspaper in the traditional sense in my opinion. It is more like a house organ, like the ones produced by the two Fortune 500 companies I worked for, which is unlikely to break bad news about the employer. The Daily Sun is a good sourse of local news, local advertising, and activities in TV. It also offers some national coverage through wire service articles. If you expect them to hire the next Woodward and Bernstien to ferret out any scandalous behavior or unethical dealings of the developer family, you will be left wanting. JMHO

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Xavier speaks correctly and to the point.

"We have options. We can quit subscribing to the Daily Sun. God knows that I, as a tried and true Democrat, dislike the Editorial Section and Opinion Pages. I could sell my house and move out of the Villages if I didn't like the developer. To treat him differently than I would my neighbor is wrong. I can make my own grown up choices and don't feel I need to hurt someone simply because I don't agree with something he allegedly does."

Redwitch and others, all of you are adults. You can make your choices. I am not advocating you move out but if you do not like the morals of the Developer and do not trust him with the financial decisions, you are not being forced to stay. You could make a profit on your house most likely if you decided to move - thanks to the Developer (whose morals you do not like). Also, no one is forcing you to buy the Daily Sun. Subscribe to the Orlando paper or any paper you want.

Well said

[redwitch]

Why is it that when someone does not like what the developer has done, the response is we can move if we don't like it? I love it here. I don't happen to love the developer, but I do appreciate what he has done with building this community. TV as a whole is a great tribute to Schwartz, Gary Morse, Mark Morse and the rest of the family. However, that doesn't mean that I don't want to know if he is ethical, honest, humane, kind to children and animals and so on. The Church on the Square and its entertainment and Morse's willingness to house the entertainers shows not only his business acumen, but his generosity to Villagers. The nature preserves are a thing of beauty and something I do appreciate on a daily basis. The fact that he gets a tax write-off for having them again shows good business acumen. The fact that they are actually well-maintained speaks well of the developer since that is not really necessary for the tax benefits.

Many of the developer's actions are not relevant to my day-to-day life but they are relevant to the overall scheme of TV and whether Morse is willing to make a profit at the cost of cheating others (mainly us). The poaching shows he is willing to skirt the law when it is convenient to him. It implies an arrogance I don't appreciate. The IRS issues also show he is arrogant enough to not listen when suggestions are made that things be changed. The entire Moffitt Center with its web of lies is just wrong to me. The settlement showed he was more than willing to cheat Villagers to line his own pocket. I do believe we need to be informed about these matters, whether from TOTV members, Ms. Ritchie, the Sun, the POA, our neighbors, etc. Yes, some may have an agenda just to besmirch the Morses but I really don't care so long as they get the word out. I'm intelligent enough and enough of an adult to make up my own mind (plus I'm willing to research things further once I hear of something).

As to not subscribing to the Sun, why wouldn't I? I just refuse to call it a newspaper. As was said, it is more of a trade rag for TV than anything else. I do want to know what events are happening in TV. I like reading the comics and Heloise and .... I like the feel of the paper in my hand in the morning. I just want a little more relevant local news. (But, then, I also want a piece of the moon, a Testarosa, enough money so that I never have to work again, to be in perfect health, peace around the world, no starvation or famine anywhere, disease to be eradicated ......)

I stand by that IF the Sun wants to be called a newspaper, then it should carry all of the news -- not just the pretty pieces. If Mark Morse or his wife is caught in bed with someone other than their spouse, I don't care (unless it was forced or a minor) and don't want to know. If Morse is charged with a misdemeanor, I don't care and don't want to know. If Morse is charged with a felony, that's news whether the Sun and Villagers like it or not and I do want to know. I find it comical that the initial arrest of Morse, et al. was finally written up weeks after it occurred while the Sentinel published the story two days after the charges were brought. Like it or not, it is news. If Morse does go to prison, how will it affect the way TV is run, if at all? I honestly have no idea.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Why is it that when someone does not like what the developer has done, the response is we can move if we don't like it? I love it here. I don't happen to love the developer, but I do appreciate what he has done with building this community. TV as a whole is a great tribute to Schwartz, Gary Morse, Mark Morse and the rest of the family. However, that doesn't mean that I don't want to know if he is ethical, honest, humane, kind to children and animals and so on. The Church on the Square and its entertainment and Morse's willingness to house the entertainers shows not only his business acumen, but his generosity to Villagers. The nature preserves are a thing of beauty and something I do appreciate on a daily basis. The fact that he gets a tax write-off for having them again shows good business acumen. The fact that they are actually well-maintained speaks well of the developer since that is not really necessary for the tax benefits.

Many of the developer's actions are not relevant to my day-to-day life but they are relevant to the overall scheme of TV and whether Morse is willing to make a profit at the cost of cheating others (mainly us). The poaching shows he is willing to skirt the law when it is convenient to him. It implies an arrogance I don't appreciate. The IRS issues also show he is arrogant enough to not listen when suggestions are made that things be changed. The entire Moffitt Center with its web of lies is just wrong to me. The settlement showed he was more than willing to cheat Villagers to line his own pocket. I do believe we need to be informed about these matters, whether from TOTV members, Ms. Ritchie, the Sun, the POA, our neighbors, etc. Yes, some may have an agenda just to besmirch the Morses but I really don't care so long as they get the word out. I'm intelligent enough and enough of an adult to make up my own mind (plus I'm willing to research things further once I hear of something).

As to not subscribing to the Sun, why wouldn't I? I just refuse to call it a newspaper. As was said, it is more of a trade rag for TV than anything else. I do want to know what events are happening in TV. I like reading the comics and Heloise and .... I like the feel of the paper in my hand in the morning. I just want a little more relevant local news. (But, then, I also want a piece of the moon, a Testarosa, enough money so that I never have to work again, to be in perfect health, peace around the world, no starvation or famine anywhere, disease to be eradicated ......)

I stand by that IF the Sun wants to be called a newspaper, then it should carry all of the news -- not just the pretty pieces. If Mark Morse or his wife is caught in bed with someone other than their spouse, I don't care (unless it was forced or a minor) and don't want to know. If Morse is charged with a misdemeanor, I don't care and don't want to know. If Morse is charged with a felony, that's news whether the Sun and Villagers like it or not and I do want to know. I find it comical that the initial arrest of Morse, et al. was finally written up weeks after it occurred while the Sentinel published the story two days after the charges were brought. Like it or not, it is news. If Morse does go to prison, how will it affect the way TV is run, if at all? I honestly have no idea.

In your second paragraph it sounds like you assume that he is guilty.

I guess I view the world differently. Maybe it's my rose-colored glasses!

Xavier