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  #106  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Indy-Guy View Post
Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.
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Originally Posted by jblum315 View Post
I just picture the Morse family, especially the older ones, looking around and thinking "Wow, look what we did here!!"
Two excellent points!!!!!

I also like the OP that claimed they lived in a 55 plus community where the developers were not as good as the Morse family with the upkeep. hence, their property value had diminished.

Just sayin........
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  #107  
Old 12-09-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy-Guy View Post
Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.
You are right, of course, but I think this misses the point. I have many friends who own, or owned, successful businesses or were officers of large companies, and most of them are good, hororable people in my mind. Two of my children own a very successful business with over 100 employees, and they too are good, honorable people. My guess is that most people who are successful are exemplary individuals. That does not mean that ALL people who run successful, profitable enterprises are above reproach. It seems to me that the people that have decided they don't like the developers have come to that conclusion based on what they have read about their actions, and the lawsuits they have been entwined in, and not on the mere fact of their success or their wealth. It seems that they are rebuffed on the basis that they are jealous, which some may be, but it seems to me that most have legitimate concerns about the ethics of the developers. Again, most don't seem to be attacking the development or the lifestyle that many want to vigerously defend, and it seems to me to be silly to suggest, as some have done, that they leave.
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  #108  
Old 12-09-2011, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 2BNTV View Post
Two excellent points!!!!!

I also like the OP that claimed they lived in a 55 plus community where the developers were not as good as the Morse family with the upkeep. hence, their property value had diminished.

Just sayin........
yes, i said that. here we have over 600 homes that are for sale for less than $100,000. it's a nice Del Webb community but things haven't been kept up. we have nice pools and rec centers but nothing like you people in the villages have. our population here is around 47,000 and with all these homes decreasing in value, it's not good. i really don't think some of you people in the villages realize how good you have it.
  #109  
Old 12-09-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default The good life in TV

Suncity, before deciding to move to TV, I did some homework on the Del Web properties. What I read was not good, and I read a lot! It's really a shame that they haven't kept up the property. Perhaps the economy played a part or they are just bad business people. What ever the reason, you all are paying the price. I have done a tremendous amount of research on The Villages and knew that it was the place for my husband and I after speaking to people who live there, and people who want to live there. Plus, we have family who lives there. I have found that in my research in finding a place to retire, there is no place like TV! We are not current residence but will be soon. I think, for the most part, those who have chosen to live in The Villages know what a gem we have! Most everything you read on these forums are so positive and people think they have died and gone to heaven! In my opinion, 80,000 people can't be wrong. So when you say you don't think that people know how good they have it.....yes they do! Good luck to you.
  #110  
Old 12-09-2011, 04:52 PM
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I look around and I can see the developer has a hand in many aspects of TV beyond the sale of homes. It doesn't bother me because I think it shows an intent to stick around after build-out. Once all the new homes are built and sold, the income will come from resales (I believe the sales offices will remain for resales.), rent from the merchants in the squares and beyond, the championship golf courses, and from all those other "things" that the family is involved in. Hopefully, that will be enough to keep them interested in maintaining the quality of this place.

I think what bothers some people is the history of selling properties to the community as we transition from developer controlled to resident controlled. The transfer of facilities north of 466 was done at a premium price out of line with appraisals of the properties. The bonds being investigate by the IRS seem to also be a windfall for the developer. These things create a cloud of doubt/suspicion that, for some people, diminishes their enjoyment of the lifestyle. That leads to a hope, but not a confidence, that buying here was the best choice.

For me, having looked at places on the left coast to retire, I think I made the right decision moving here. Time will tell.
  #111  
Old 12-09-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunCity View Post
yes, i said that. here we have over 600 homes that are for sale for less than $100,000. it's a nice Del Webb community but things haven't been kept up. we have nice pools and rec centers but nothing like you people in the villages have. our population here is around 47,000 and with all these homes decreasing in value, it's not good. i really don't think some of you people in the villages realize how good you have it.
Sorry, I was in a time crunch, so for the sake of getting my thoughts down quickly, I didn't refer to you directly. With that being said, your point of view is excellent as it brings perspective to the TV developer as opposed to other communities.

I am still a wannabe but I will move there ASAP when my condo sells.
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  #112  
Old 12-09-2011, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy-Guy View Post
Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.
You won the SWIMDAWG Post of the Day Award, Indy-Guy. Great post!
  #113  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taj44 View Post
Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.
Taj, are you considering the fact that "location, location, location" always drives rent prices? Again, that's because prices are generally determined by what the market will bear. Just look at TV homeowners who rent their homes. They can and do charge a lot more than rent would go for in the areas just outside of TV. They can and do charge quite a bit more for rent in Jan-March than in June-Aug., because that's what the market will bear.

I'm not saying that the Morse organization has never done anything to make me wince. However, the fact that they charge premium commercial rent for premium commercial space makes all the sense in the world to me.

Last edited by Pturner; 12-09-2011 at 09:32 PM. Reason: I split this into two posts.
  #114  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:28 PM
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Referring to a comment that wealth doesn't equate to greed, Ewissenbach wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eweissenbach View Post
You are right, of course, but I think this misses the point. I have many friends who own, or owned, successful businesses or were officers of large companies, and most of them are good, hororable people in my mind. Two of my children own a very successful business with over 100 employees, and they too are good, honorable people. My guess is that most people who are successful are exemplary individuals. That does not mean that ALL people who run successful, profitable enterprises are above reproach. It seems to me that the people that have decided they don't like the developers have come to that conclusion based on what they have read about their actions, and the lawsuits they have been entwined in, and not on the mere fact of their success or their wealth. It seems that they are rebuffed on the basis that they are jealous, which some may be, but it seems to me that most have legitimate concerns about the ethics of the developers. Again, most don't seem to be attacking the development or the lifestyle that many want to vigerously defend, and it seems to me to be silly to suggest, as some have done, that they leave.
I agree fully. We never see other people's viewpoints as sympathetically as we see our own. Many (though not all) concerns expressed about the Morse organization's ethics are based on issues that raise legitimate questions. Questioning the motives of posters who raises these concerns doesn't address the questions.

To Ed's point, most of the posters who have said they thought the Morse's were greedy gave explanations for their perspective that have nothing to do with how much money the Morse's have. None of us is a mind reader. When we attempt to ascribe motives to people with whom we disagree, rather than stating how we see the issue(s) they raise differently, we don't shed more light on the subject, just more heat.

We all learn more with our ears and minds open. Dismissing a concern without addressing it directly, by just ascribing jealousy or any other motive, can give the impression of a mind not open to dissenting points of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeod View Post
...I think what bothers some people is the history of selling properties to the community as we transition from developer controlled to resident controlled. The transfer of facilities north of 466 was done at a premium price out of line with appraisals of the properties. The bonds being investigate by the IRS seem to also be a windfall for the developer. These things create a cloud of doubt/suspicion that, for some people, diminishes their enjoyment of the lifestyle. That leads to a hope, but not a confidence, that buying here was the best choice.

For me, having looked at places on the left coast to retire, I think I made the right decision moving here. Time will tell.
Excellent example of listening, to the point of understanding, another person's perspective even when we disagree.

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