[CarlR33]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

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Wha?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

When you take the AED training it stresses just that. That CPR MUST me started immediately...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by asianthree

As mentioned earlier The fire department has a program for entry to homes without breaking down a door. Box with a key is added to outside home. No major problems involved.

I read that. Good information...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S.

I don’t think they are necessary. My call to 911 had EMTs in my kitchen in 5 minutes. Not enough time for a neighbor to be dispatched with an AED. We declined years ago to participate and haven’t been disparaged.

Unless the EMTs are tied up with other emergencies... The the response time increases...

Consider yourself lucky...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by HORNET

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

You've said that, multiple times... What proof do you have that causes you to disparage those volunteering for the program?

And each Village IS doing their own thing. That is EXACTLY how the program is being set up... Village by Village...

[asianthree]

I will say the 6 times 911 was called to our home by parents, EMS was at the house a full 4 minutes before the first AED volunteer arrived. Of course each call was between 1am and 3am. Prime time lights no sound.

[Ponygirl]

Thank you to Big Dawg and others for talking abt the importance of initiating CPR immediately

I am a Red Cross certified BLS- CPR/AED/ first aid instructor trainer and high quality CPR is critical High quality CPR means using the correct
hand position and correct depth and tempo for compressions.

The manikins that we use for training have lights that indicate the correct depth and tempo to help students understand how to do the compressions correctly

So some referred to Hands Only or Compression Only CPR - no rescue breaths Keep compressions going without stopping until the area is unsafe or some relieves you or EMS arrives

If using rescue breaths The ratio is 30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths

We recently had a class at First Responders rec center

[TVTVTV]

Originally Posted by jayteadunn

I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlock keys.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o

Does anyone know if Pulsepoint covers emergency calls in Lake or Marion counties? I can't find any tracker except for Sumter, and no other app for info.

[BigDawgInLakeDenham]

Originally Posted by Ponygirl

Thank you to Big Dawg and others for talking abt the importance of initiating CPR immediately

I am a Red Cross certified BLS- CPR/AED/ first aid instructor trainer and high quality CPR is critical High quality CPR means using the correct
hand position and correct depth and tempo for compressions.

The manikins that we use for training have lights that indicate the correct depth and tempo to help students understand how to do the compressions correctly

So some referred to Hands Only or Compression Only CPR - no rescue breaths Keep compressions going without stopping until the area is unsafe or some relieves you or EMS arrives

If using rescue breaths The ratio is 30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths

We recently had a class at First Responders rec center

Hi and thank you! I'm interested in eventually getting training classes held in Lake Denham. It's what everyone truly needs but just don't know it. Once I'm full time I can look at getting more involved. There are many unsold houses in my neighborhood and there are most likely interested folks coming that will also feel....not included. Hopefully the "leaders" will figure out that it takes much more than cash and an AED to run the intended program. No disrespect because all efforts are necessary for us

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by Marathon Man

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

I have all the respect in the world for first responder programs and their volunteers. That stuff is not easy and often not convenient for those doing the work. I presume that EMT programs are a version of that, but am unfamiliar. A two week hospital rotation with a couple of over-nights in an emergency room demonstrated that such things are most definitely not for me. Had an AED in my office for many years and was prepared to use it, but *really* hoped never to need to.

My pondering is about the practicality of this particular type of AED program. I have no problem with rational discussion of such subjects. But, I would be interested in hearing here about those lives saved to date, as well as maybe how specific situations have played out - especially "if ever" over 20 years as has been reported in specific programs. Googling for such information has not yielded much so far.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

Mntlblok....the AED decides if it should give a shock based on VT/VF and say "SHOCK ADVISED". I guarantee you will seldom hear those words stated by the AED and why I keep saying CPR. You would not want to shock a person that is awake because you could stop their heart. You will learn about helping in certain scenarios and it's designed so everyone can learn it. The more trained help on scene the better.

I was on the receiving end in the ED as the RN doing CPR, pushing ACLS drugs, and running the defibrillator. We only saw positive outcomes when EMS was activated and CPR was immediately started. We're lucky to have Healthcare professionals amongst us bringing decades of know how....but it's on all of us to know what to do and how to do it because EMS and the ED are TOO far, at this point in time.

I just re-read all of the posts in this thread and I am disgusted by some posts that I can only assume are male Physicians claiming that no one is getting out of bed and that all Nurses are female, and the AED costs less than getting our nails done. Let me assure you than Nurses are not weak, they are all not female, and don't confront me about this post, if you are the male chauvinist pig, if you value your orbital bones.....think Laforte 4....I jest somewhat but please don't discount my female coworkers. Looks really bad on you

*That's* what I woulda said were I more informed and more articulate. Nurses - of *all* stripes - have long been some of my very favorite folks. They live far closer to "real life" than I'd want to experience on a regular basis. Fun to talk to, highly educated, sharp, and with the thickest skin I ever get to experience. Never knew that LaFortes went higher than 3. :-) Oh, and *always* have a great comeback when asked their favorite bodily fluid.

Have heard an AED "speak" in practice. Knew that the "A" was for "automated" rather than "automatic", but found it interesting that the article I just read kept switching back and forth between the two.

Any thoughts on standing and using one's foot for the compressions? Two fake knees here, too. . .

[Maker]

Corrections for misinformation posted...

The AED program gets many people trained. Volunteers head to the victim first. If someone further away is passing an AED, they grab it and continue on. There is not only one person responding, and wasting time to fetch the AED instead of starting CPR.

Older people can do CPR. Having multiple people to swap is a tremendous help. Having an AED hooked up helps do CPR better. It monitors compression depth and rate, and speaks commands to correct poor form. If I ever need CPR, I would welcome 12 trained retired people coming to help instead of one untrained guy that will tire out after 4 minutes of ineffective CPR learned by watching television.

Survival rates with CPR are not like what television shows. In reality, CPR might lead to a save, and when that happens all the responders are really thrilled that they made a difference that time.

What happens in the real world - before someone reaches an ER doctor - is choreographed chaos. Nobody is perfect and they do the best they can under extremely stressful situations. The goal of CPR is to prolong life sufficiently enough to get the patient to an ER where they have a chance of recovery.

People living across from a fire station should see help arrive within 2 minutes of the 911 call. People 2 miles away should see help arrive within 5 minutes. That is consistently not happening here for some reason. I'd like to know why.
If it takes >4 minutes for CPR to begin, the likelihood of survival is virtually zero. When the FD is taking 5 or 8 or 10 or 15 minutes to arrive, that is why the program is necessary and valuable.

Many of the what-if things posted are covered in training. That's why people get trained - to know what to do. Saving just one human life is worth it.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by mntlblok

I have all the respect in the world for first responder programs and their volunteers. That stuff is not easy and often not convenient for those doing the work. I presume that EMT programs are a version of that, but am unfamiliar. A two week hospital rotation with a couple of over-nights in an emergency room demonstrated that such things are most definitely not for me. Had an AED in my office for many years and was prepared to use it, but *really* hoped never to need to.

My pondering is about the practicality of this particular type of AED program. I have no problem with rational discussion of such subjects. But, I would be interested in hearing here about those lives saved to date, as well as maybe how specific situations have played out - especially "if ever" over 20 years as has been reported in specific programs. Googling for such information has not yielded much so far.

I really don't understand your purpose. The neighborhood emergence response program has been in place for quite a while now. You seem to be looking for flaws in it. Why not take the training and get your answers firsthand? You will see for yourself that it is designed, implemented and overseen by the pros.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by Marathon Man

I really don't understand your purpose. The neighborhood emergence response program has been in place for quite a while now. You seem to be looking for flaws in it. Why not take the training and get your answers firsthand? You will see for yourself that it is designed, implemented and overseen by the pros.

"You seem to be looking for flaws in it." Show where I've done that and I'll correct it. I've asked specific questions about neighborhood AED systems. They strike me as being reasonable real world questions. The response programs otherwise sound wonderful.

[asianthree]

So far only once has information posted on how many times AED was used in a neighborhood. Wondering for those who are lead in your neighborhood, do you keep stats on calls, use, and volume of non used pad disposals?

Would be great information for new startups how many AEDs, and actual use, and losses on expired pads and change of batteries.