[MACH7SS]

Originally Posted by Barbara Jacks

I don't want to contribute my life for the herd, or the lives of my family. I think I'll stay in.

The concept of "herd immunity" is not new nor is it an idea brought to the forefront by the current Coronavirus Pandemic. Herd immunity is how humans thru the ages have survived against virus in all shapes and forms. Some we have developed vaccines and medications but some like SARS and MERS we have not yet. The bottom line is this: a retiree living in the Villages can self isolate longer than most people but eventually you, like all of us, will leave your home and venture out. You will need food, medicines, physician appointments, hair cuts, new clothing, etc. And just think, you will want to visit with family, grandchildren, and friends. The world cannot isolate forever and the Coronavirus and all of its mutations are not going anywhere soon. We may develop a vaccine in a year or two or three but that will work against COVID-19. What about the next virus? And the virus after that? You are being exposed to active viruses all the time. Yes, the COVID-19 is worse than most but isolating indefinitely is not going to happen. It is impossible!

[Byte1]

Isn't this mentality similar to what the Nazi were trying to do with the elimination of "weaker, substandard" races? Extreme? Are you going to sacrifice your family for the sake of the rest of the community? Why? Did you send your children to school when they had childhood diseases, because you felt that the whole community would be better off if you shared the illness? Sacrificing large groups of people with the thought that the rest would be better off and everyone could get back to work, sounds ridiculous. Sounds like the woman that founded Planned Parenthood, and her idea of getting rid of the black race in order to benefit the rest of the country. After all, some were prone to sickle cell, right? And we don't want that spreading. Why bother with vaccines, when the simple resolution is to just gather everyone together and let the strongest survive and weaker die in order to make the country stronger, right?
I'll live with wearing gloves and masks for a while and stand back six feet from others, if that will help curb the spread. Unlike others, I am not going to sacrifice others so that my stock portfolio does not tank. I am very disappointed in those that advocate irresponsible "Nazi-like" mentality of sacrificing the weak to the survival of those that are more wealthy or more healthy.
I realize that this was just an opinion of someone else, but now you have my opinion.

[bumpygreens]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I THINK the OP was suggesting to just bite the bullet, let the chips fall where they may and save the economy.

I don't think it is that simple.

I think we are going to face the largest economic depression the world has ever seen no matter what we do.

I think the president was thinking along these lines when he suggested earlier that we should "go back to work" in April. I don't know what changed his mind.

Some people think, why just not let people die, the most endangered are close to dying of natural causes anyway.

It could be some kind of awful "natural selection" or it could be an awful experiment gone terribly wrong and it could be someone planned on purpose to destroy just America? I don't think so personally, but there is plenty of fuel for those fires if you read this forum or listen to many opinions.

I think the human race has something that is stronger than allowing people to die from disease if they can do anything to not let that happen.

What do you think?

I think this planet is a death trap. Nobody has ever gotten out of here alive. Most of us today die of diseases that were rare causes of death prior to the 20th century. The only reason we are not panicking over them is that their growth has been slow.

I think most people who are alive today, including myself, haven't had to face any serious calamities. I grew up on stories from my grandparents. All four were born in 1906 and 1907. They lived through the spanish flu epidemic, two world wars and the great depression. They lost friends and relatives to small pox, polio, tuberculosis and measles. Two of them were born here. Two of them immigrated here for the hope of a better life than they had in post-WWI Europe. They lived frugally, loved deeply and gave charitably.

I wonder how our ancestors would react to this. Would they have rushed to put tens of millions of people out of work before knowing how many lives, if any, might be saved? The drastic measures we have taken will flatten the curve, not eliminate it. People will get sick, some will die...over a longer period of time. Hospitals won't be overwhelmed, but millions of families may be thrown into poverty. We will probably never know the number of lives we are saving, but we will be paying the cost of it for generations.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by bumpygreens

I think this planet is a death trap. Nobody has ever gotten out of here alive. Most of us today die of diseases that were rare causes of death prior to the 20th century. The only reason we are not panicking over them is that their growth has been slow.

I think most people who are alive today, including myself, haven't had to face any serious calamities. I grew up on stories from my grandparents. All four were born in 1906 and 1907. They lived through the spanish flu epidemic, two world wars and the great depression. They lost friends and relatives to small pox, polio, tuberculosis and measles. Two of them were born here. Two of them immigrated here for the hope of a better life than they had in post-WWI Europe. They lived frugally, loved deeply and gave charitably.

I wonder how our ancestors would react to this. Would they have rushed to put tens of millions of people out of work before knowing how many lives, if any, might be saved? The drastic measures we have taken will flatten the curve, not eliminate it. People will get sick, some will die...over a longer period of time. Hospitals won't be overwhelmed, but millions of families may be thrown into poverty. We will probably never know the number of lives we are saving, but we will be paying the cost of it for generations.

The generation you talk of didn't have the option to respond as the present generation.
Most, in those times had no idea as was going on in the next town, let alone the rest of the world, and by the time they found out, it was too late to do anything about it, even if the expertise had been available.
I sometimes think we have too much information, and a lot of it is BS, resulting in the confusion and contradiction you see just on TOTV.

[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by MACH7SS

The concept of "herd immunity" is not new nor is it an idea brought to the forefront by the current Coronavirus Pandemic. Herd immunity is how humans thru the ages have survived against virus in all shapes and forms. Some we have developed vaccines and medications but some like SARS and MERS we have not yet. The bottom line is this: a retiree living in the Villages can self isolate longer than most people but eventually you, like all of us, will leave your home and venture out. You will need food, medicines, physician appointments, hair cuts, new clothing, etc. And just think, you will want to visit with family, grandchildren, and friends. The world cannot isolate forever and the Coronavirus and all of its mutations are not going anywhere soon. We may develop a vaccine in a year or two or three but that will work against COVID-19. What about the next virus? And the virus after that? You are being exposed to active viruses all the time. Yes, the COVID-19 is worse than most but isolating indefinitely is not going to happen. It is impossible!

Very well stated. Very logical and well reasoned. It's unfortunate that so many people think that if they just sit this out for a few months, the problem will go away. I don't think it will.

[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by bumpygreens

I think this planet is a death trap. Nobody has ever gotten out of here alive. Most of us today die of diseases that were rare causes of death prior to the 20th century. The only reason we are not panicking over them is that their growth has been slow.

I think most people who are alive today, including myself, haven't had to face any serious calamities. I grew up on stories from my grandparents. All four were born in 1906 and 1907. They lived through the spanish flu epidemic, two world wars and the great depression. They lost friends and relatives to small pox, polio, tuberculosis and measles. Two of them were born here. Two of them immigrated here for the hope of a better life than they had in post-WWI Europe. They lived frugally, loved deeply and gave charitably.

I wonder how our ancestors would react to this. Would they have rushed to put tens of millions of people out of work before knowing how many lives, if any, might be saved? The drastic measures we have taken will flatten the curve, not eliminate it. People will get sick, some will die...over a longer period of time. Hospitals won't be overwhelmed, but millions of families may be thrown into poverty. We will probably never know the number of lives we are saving, but we will be paying the cost of it for generations.

Very well said.

[MACH7SS]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Isn't this mentality similar to what the Nazi were trying to do with the elimination of "weaker, substandard" races? Extreme? Are you going to sacrifice your family for the sake of the rest of the community? Why? Did you send your children to school when they had childhood diseases, because you felt that the whole community would be better off if you shared the illness? Sacrificing large groups of people with the thought that the rest would be better off and everyone could get back to work, sounds ridiculous. Sounds like the woman that founded Planned Parenthood, and her idea of getting rid of the black race in order to benefit the rest of the country. After all, some were prone to sickle cell, right? And we don't want that spreading. Why bother with vaccines, when the simple resolution is to just gather everyone together and let the strongest survive and weaker die in order to make the country stronger, right?
I'll live with wearing gloves and masks for a while and stand back six feet from others, if that will help curb the spread. Unlike others, I am not going to sacrifice others so that my stock portfolio does not tank. I am very disappointed in those that advocate irresponsible "Nazi-like" mentality of sacrificing the weak to the survival of those that are more wealthy or more healthy.
I realize that this was just an opinion of someone else, but now you have my opinion.

If one sees no difference between developing immunity to a variety of yearly viruses/diseases and gassing then incinerating civilians for political purposes, this thread should end immediately.

[C. C. Rider]

By the way, some people might be surprised to learn that there are numerous hospitals in the country today where the hospital has laid off many of their emergency room staff due to lack of business.

Of course the news programs on television are always going to show the most extreme situations. That brings viewers which in turn brings advertisers to pay the bills. They're not going to show empty emergency rooms across the country because that's not riveting news.

If it bleeds, it leads. If they can't show something sensational or scary, then no one would watch and they would go out of business.

[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by MACH7SS

If one sees no difference between developing immunity to a variety of yearly viruses/diseases and gassing then incinerating civilians for political purposes, this thread should end immediately.

Clearly, there are SOME people who see the difference, but some don't WANT to see the difference.

[Velvet]

So, are you also writing a Science fiction novel?

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Isn't this mentality similar to what the Nazi were trying to do with the elimination of "weaker, substandard" races? Sounds like the woman that founded Planned Parenthood, and her idea of getting rid of the black race in order to benefit the rest of the country.

You might want to fact check your opinion of what Sanger thought about black people and what was her opinion of the Nazi movement. She believed in eugenics, but she did not believe black people were inferior. She strongly spoke out for improving the well being of the black community, which someone who wanted to eliminate them would not. The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

"It has been argued occasionally that Negros do not need birth control. What is needed, it is said, are better living conditions, better working conditions, more medical services, improved diets and schools. Of course they are and by dint of the efforts of all those who believe in justice, these will be achieved.
But in the meantime, in the immediate here and now, Negro parents need birth control to help alleviate some of the needless suffering and heartbreak, to get firmly established on the road to health and better living. Even if the Negros lived in Utopia the need to plan their families would still be an urgent health and social measure."

And to her credit she worked to establish clinics to help families be able to plan when to become parents in both rich and poor neighborhoods, white and black. Someone has badly misinformed you about Sanger, very badly.

[Villageswimmer]

Originally Posted by MACH7SS

The concept of "herd immunity" is not new nor is it an idea brought to the forefront by the current Coronavirus Pandemic. Herd immunity is how humans thru the ages have survived against virus in all shapes and forms. Some we have developed vaccines and medications but some like SARS and MERS we have not yet. The bottom line is this: a retiree living in the Villages can self isolate longer than most people but eventually you, like all of us, will leave your home and venture out. You will need food, medicines, physician appointments, hair cuts, new clothing, etc. And just think, you will want to visit with family, grandchildren, and friends. The world cannot isolate forever and the Coronavirus and all of its mutations are not going anywhere soon. We may develop a vaccine in a year or two or three but that will work against COVID-19. What about the next virus? And the virus after that? You are being exposed to active viruses all the time. Yes, the COVID-19 is worse than most but isolating indefinitely is not going to happen. It is impossible!

Thanks for a very thought-provoking post.

[ALadysMom]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

I bet if this virus was knocking over the millenials, and not the oldies, 'Herd Immunity' would be the last option on the table!

H1N1 Swine flu did knock over more young people than oldies. Herd immunity was the approach taken. The CDC estimates 57 million Americans had been sickened, 257,000 had been hospitalised and 11,690 people had died (including 1,180 children) due to swine flu from April through to mid-January.

[ALadysMom]

If selective isolation were taken, would the vulnerable ones know when they can safely come out? How would they be assured they would not be accidentally in contact with a carrier, active or asymptomatic? How would you notify others that a vulnerable one is cloistered inside? (Reverse lepracy stigmas?) Many vulnerable people deny they are vulnerable so would we lock them in? Employers are not likely to support a young vulnerable employee’s decision to self-isolate so how would it be verified?

On the other hand, how will this social distancing experiment end? The virus won’t go away & the herd is not going to be immune.

I guess we had better hope for much more widely available testing and fast, effective widely available treatments.This is quite a pickle we are in, isn't it?

[Bjeanj]

I plan on wearing a mask until a vaccine is developed. I can’t afford to get COVID19.