[golfnut]

If the inspector notified you of reduced pressure in that zone shouldn't you have done something right then? Seems like that would have been the right time to pursue it, isn't that what you pay them for?

[chuckinca]

Originally Posted by collie1228

Sidney, that's a well written description of a sad situation.

I'm no lawyer, but I do deal with legal issues on a daily basis. While my business is not real estate or construction, I do occasionally have to deal with "latent defects". Here is the first sentence of the definition of "latent defects" in Wikipedia:

"In the law of the sale of property (both real estate and personal property or chattels) a latent defect is a fault in the property that could not have been discovered by a reasonably thorough inspection before the sale."

You should Google "latent defects" to get a more thorough understanding, but generally, a latent defect is a defect that cannot be discovered by a reasonable inspection at the time of purchase (i.e., the defect is underground and you would have to destroy your lawn to gain access for the inspection). On its face, your situation looks an awful lot like a latent defect. To my knowledge, there is no general time limitation on when you must discover a latent defect, but obviously Florida law should be checked, and also obviously, you would need to get an attorney involved, but it seems to me that this situation could be resolved in your favor, depending on how Florida law covers latent defects. You might also have a problem with the fact that you weren't the original purchaser of the home. Quite possibly your complaint might have to be lodged against your seller, who would have to lodge a complaint against the developer. As I said, I'm not an attorney.

Good luck - it appears that you would have to be prepared to take this all the way to the courtroom to get the developer's attention. A time consuming and expensive proposition.

I agree with the above by Collie.

Further, the sprinkler system probably required a pressure test witnessed and signed off by a county inspector as part of the building permit. It wouldn't pass a pressure test with an open end. I would ask TV and county building inspection dept for a copy of the permit sign off.

You're retired and have the time to mess with this injustice - - - go get em!

[SteveFromNY]

Sidney - regardless of the how it all came to be, and the question of fault, the end result sounds to me like this:
There was a problem with the sprinkler system that is now fixed (for free, correct?).
You have a liability for a few months of water bills resulting from this situation.
I'm not sure of what the real impact here is - your normal water bill is say $100, and your bills were $500 or $600? So that makes the issue an $800 to a $1000 problem (2 months, right?).
Since the irrigation company fixed the problem once they learned of it, I'm not sure what more they can be on the hook. Was there a "true-up" at closing where the water bill was settled for the balance of the days you owned into the next billing cycle? If there was then you should probably have seen the high amount then, and done something about it.
I believe the problem lies more with the former owners than with the builder. To have thrown away hundreds of dollars a month on a really high water bill - well it should have raised an eyebrow and they (the former owner) should have questioned it.
And assuming that someone would step up and pay the outrageous bill, should they be liable for more than one month's worth? It's not their fault you were away.
So maybe, if all the stars aligned, someone would give you the difference between a regular bill and your normal bill for one month? So we're now talking $400 to $500. Is that worth the trouble of suing? Here in NY we have a small claims court where for $20 an individual can bring action against anyone for anything up to $5000. It's easy to do, and you don't need an atty. Not sure about FL, but it would seem to me you can do one of three things:
Pay the bill and move on.
Pay the bill, and sue the original owner for their stupidity (not sure how that gets worded in a lawsuit), and $800.
Pay the bill and sue the sprinkler co/builder for $800

I seriously doubt you'll get anything but more aggravation as a result. And at the end of it all, the water did pass thru the meter,so the water company is right to bill you for it (even though they should have noticed, maybe).

I think you're pretty well stuck. Too much time, and one too many owners to get the kind of satisfaction you deserve.

Would you have paid another $800 for the house? Cough it up, think of it as part of the the price of the house, and move on. That'd be what I'd advise.

[golfnut]

Steve, I think the extra water $ is less than $200. $87.05 - $12.50 = 74.55, for 2 months I believe.

[SteveFromNY]

Originally Posted by golfnut

Steve, I think the extra water $ is less than $200. $87.05 - $12.50 = 74.55, for 2 months I believe.

All the more reason to move on and learn a lesson.

[Sidney Lanier]

SteveFromNY (and BTW, we're from NY too and as snowbirds are still back and forth): The amount is small--no more than $200 and likely a bit less--and I have long since asked myself how much impact this minuscule amount will have over the course of our lives and answered 'zilch.' The sellers did pay for the repair as they had promised to do so, and considering how much they had been victimized because of the mistake made by the irrigation system installer (yes, granted they allowed it through their own frailty and lack of awareness stemming from advanced age and poor health), the idea of suing these honorable people is beyond our consideration. We paid the water bill months ago and, after observing the machinations of everyone 'passing the buck' rather than 'the buck stops here' which looking back I would almost think I did out of curiosity to see where it would go, we walked away from the issue other than finally posting the story, as I said, in the hopes that it would bring this remote possibility to the awareness of TV newcomers and others. The money is the least of it, I did indeed learn many things that make the story worth sharing, and we've long since moved on. Thanks!

[SteveFromNY]

Originally Posted by Sidney Lanier

SteveFromNY (and BTW, we're from NY too and as snowbirds are still back and forth): The amount is small--no more than $200 and likely a bit less--and I have long since asked myself how much impact this minuscule amount will have over the course of our lives and answered 'zilch.' The sellers did pay for the repair as they had promised to do so, and considering how much they had been victimized because of the mistake made by the irrigation system installer (yes, granted they allowed it through their own frailty and lack of awareness stemming from advanced age and poor health), the idea of suing these honorable people is beyond our consideration. We paid the water bill months ago and, after observing the machinations of everyone 'passing the buck' rather than 'the buck stops here' which looking back I would almost think I did out of curiosity to see where it would go, we walked away from the issue other than finally posting the story, as I said, in the hopes that it would bring this remote possibility to the awareness of TV newcomers and others. The money is the least of it, I did indeed learn many things that make the story worth sharing, and we've long since moved on. Thanks!

Glad to hear it! Thanks for posting as it is a good lesson for the rest of us.

Where in NY? We're in Staten Island.

[krys]

Sidney -

Thanks for taking the time to tell your tale of woe.

It will go on our growing list of "things" of which to be aware.

I am very surprised, since I believe the area is in a drought condition, that the utility company didn't pay - ANY - attention to water usage that was 6 to 10 times what is probable 'normal' usage (3,000/5,000 gallons versus 30,000 gallons).

Krys

[sandybill2]

thanks for your posting. I am sure it will give newcomers a heads-up and something to look for. We bought last Sept- never had irrigation system but noticed on our first two bills that we were paying into the "2nd tier" charge for residential irrigation--using 12,000--11,000. My husband checked our irrigation system and found one sprinkler head had been broken off ; therefore, whenever the system was on it was just like a hose running the entire time. At least there was a connection for a sprinkler--unlike your story.

One thing he just noticed is that on our gas water heater, there is no pressure release valve. He checked our neighbors heaters and they all seem to have a valve. There is a plug in the hole where it says to install pressure release valve. Who do you think we should contact about this? The plumbers that installed it--according to our list--was Tinney. I am assuming that is a company name. We could not find it in our phone book.

[chuckinca]

Originally Posted by sandybill2

thanks for your posting. I am sure it will give newcomers a heads-up and something to look for. We bought last Sept- never had irrigation system but noticed on our first two bills that we were paying into the "2nd tier" charge for residential irrigation--using 12,000--11,000. My husband checked our irrigation system and found one sprinkler head had been broken off ; therefore, whenever the system was on it was just like a hose running the entire time. At least there was a connection for a sprinkler--unlike your story.

One thing he just noticed is that on our gas water heater, there is no pressure release valve. He checked our neighbors heaters and they all seem to have a valve. There is a plug in the hole where it says to install pressure release valve. Who do you think we should contact about this? The plumbers that installed it--according to our list--was Tinney. I am assuming that is a company name. We could not find it in our phone book.

If you get a run around - got to home depot and buy a PRV for about 15 bucks and install it yourselves.

Turn off the hot water heater
Shut the water supply valve.
Open a hot water valve in kitchen or bath to release pressure.
Remove the plug.
Install the PRV - use teflon tape on the threads.
Install plastic pipe from the PRV discharge to the floor or better discharge location
open the water supply valve and check the prv threads for leakage
open the water discharge valve
start up the water heater
run like hell (LOL)

[sandybill2]

Originally Posted by chuckinca

If you get a run around - got to home depot and buy a PRV for about 15 bucks and install it yourselves.

Turn off the hot water heater
Shut the water supply and discharge valves.
slowly open the plug to release the pressure.
install the PRV - use teflon tape on the threads.
Install plastic pipe from the PRV discharge to the floor or better discharge location
open the water supply valve and check the prv threads for leakage
open the water discharge valve
start up the water heater
run like hell (LOL)

thanks for the advice. I''m hoping this would be the last resort. We called our "home inspector" and asked him about the lack of pressure valve. He said he would be back by to take another look at it. He would either take care of it===but he said if you call the home warranty dept---I guarantee they will be out in less than 15 minutes. I should tell you we purchased a home built in 2004---we are the 4th owner and the only owners to live here full time.

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by sandybill2

We called our "home inspector" and asked him about the lack of pressure valve. He said he would be back by to take another look at it. He would either take care of it===but he said if you call the home warranty dept---I guarantee they will be out in less than 15 minutes. I should tell you we purchased a home built in 2004---we are the 4th owner and the only owners to live here full time.

Hi sandybill, thanks for your earlier PM.

I had little expectation from the Warranty Dept after our debacle with the missing sprinkler head. However, our next-door neighbor recently realized that his water heater was lacking an expansion tank, and even though the house is also, like yours and ours, four years old, they came quickly as that is an actual safety violation, and the original plumber was back installing their expansion tank. I inquired as well and was shown that our tank was in the wall rather than on the heater itself. Chuckinca's instructions are clear and simple--I've done it at our home in NY (and you don't really have to run like he**!)--but why not at least ask TV's Warranty Dept to do it?

And yes, ours was a sprinkler line buried in the ground that had NEVER had a sprinkler head attached. It's hard to imagine that 25,000 gallons of water would run underground and go unnoticed for 3-1/2 years, but the soil is sandy and apparently not prone to sinkholes.... Unless one has a really large property, one generally shouldn't be in the second tier of irrigation water, given the current water restrictions; ours was in the third and would have been in the fourth had there been a fourth (third is the highest, so far as I know)! It's also worth checking each zone individually via the control box to see if the watering times and day are appropriate. Other neighbors of ours once got a snippy note left by the 'water police' that they were watering on the wrong day!

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by krys

Thanks for taking the time to tell your tale of woe.

It will go on our growing list of "things" of which to be aware.

I am very surprised, since I believe the area is in a drought condition, that the utility company didn't pay - ANY - attention to water usage that was 6 to 10 times what is probable 'normal' usage (3,000/5,000 gallons versus 30,000 gallons).

Krys

Krys, that was one of the most disturbing things that came out of our whole experience (the only thing worse being the extent of victimization of the original frail owners for 3-1/2 years by whoever is responsible, since no one is willing to admit to being so...), and one of the primary reasons that I knew I had to take the time to post this story, is that the utility company did NOTHING to flag situations like ours where water usage was extraordinarily and inappropriately high. After all, this can be built into their billing software, and even if not, a human being somewhere has to be processing payments....

[diskman]

Sidney,
I guess you could thank the lord it was recycled water. Could you imagine what 30,000 gallons of drinking water would cost!

[JohnN]

utility company not monitoring nor noticing extreme water usage -
again, amazed but unsurprised.

I've noticed so many companies do not have very good internal controls nor monitoring, it's scary - and costly.