[zcaveman]

Sidney: Thanks for the input. I have added a line entry to my Things to Think About When Moving to the Villages covering warranties with a special mention of the sprinkler system 30 day warranty. I will be posting the new list today.

[Sidney Lanier]

zcaveman:
That's a great idea--to include it in your list! Sorry, I should have thought of it myself and sent you a PM. Whatever, as long as it gets publicized.

Potential newbies and newbies:
Be sure to read zcaveman's posts on his Things to Think about When Moving to The Villages! It's an absolutely valuable resource and the most comprehensive source of 'what to do and how to do it' that I've ever seen not only here in TV but in any context!

EVERYONE (potential newbies, newbies, and even existing residents):
When you get here--or if you are here already--it would be well worth your while to monitor your sprinkler system. The control box is a bit complicated but can be figured out; if you're in new construction you can get TV to walk through its operations with you, as well as how the zones themselves work, during that 30-day warranty period. And it's important to remember to replace the 9-volt back-up battery periodically; otherwise, in the event of a power outage, you can lose your settings. Be vigilant; it's yet another 'caveat'!

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by JohnN

utility company not monitoring nor noticing extreme water usage -
again, amazed but unsurprised.

I've noticed so many companies do not have very good internal controls nor monitoring, it's scary - and costly.

Unrelated story but a whole different management attitude: We have friends up north who were away for a week or two in the middle of winter. The oil company delivery truck came to fill their oil tank, and the driver noticed a sound coming from inside the house. He contacted the local police, who came, heard the same sound, broke in, and found that a pipe had frozen and started leaking. The police contacted a local plumber, had the repair done, had the oil company service department come back and check the heating system (which was fine), and secured the house after everything was attended to.

Our friends came home and were upset at what had happened--and at the same time were flabbergasted and delighted at the conscientiousness of the oil delivery driver who could easily have done his delivery, gotten into his truck, and driven on to his next stop. Instead he had taken the time to do what he did. When our friends contacted him to express their gratitude, he explained that it was something he would do anyway; however, his manager routinely instructs drivers to take a minute or two to scan the house, especially if it's noticeable that the house is unoccupied (snow on the front walk, no tire tracks coming and going, etc.), and to act on it if he perceives anything out of the ordinary.

A whole different management practice....

Originally Posted by diskman

I guess you could thank the lord it was recycled water. Could you imagine what 30,000 gallons of drinking water would cost!

Indeed! (Actually about 30,000 times 2.5 months until we finally got the repair done....) And imagine where that water would have gone....

[chuckster]

I gather frome the foregoing, when buying a resale check all utility bills for the past 6 - 12 months and compare them with comparable homes. ;D

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by chuckster

I gather frome the foregoing, when buying a resale check all utility bills for the past 6 - 12 months and compare them with comparable homes. ;D

Very well put, chuckster! It's something that never occurred to us to do, and based on our experience we hope that others will do so. As was pointed out in an earlier post to this thread, which I recognized, I didn't practice due diligence (not that, IMHO, this absolves whoever in TV management should be taking responsibility from acknowledging the construction error...).

[molddude]

I am not an attorney either, but I do inspections in MD and have fought many a builder. I have had to go back on builders after the warranty period. The way I have won is by showing that a "reasonable discovery" had just taken place and the warranty period begins at that point. ie I lived in a home for 5 years when I had to replace a speaker in the wall. I found missing insulation, big time, and when I mentioned the "discovery that could not be found by a reasonable inspection" and mentioned the county inspection folks, they came right out and rebuilt the entire wall

good luck

Marty

[EdV]

Warranty or no warranty, if the defect involves a code violation, you can usually get it corrected if you take the right approach.

After living in my new condo for nearly 4 years, the toilet suddenly backed up and I immediately called a drain cleaning service. They unclogged the drain but then pointed out that they would not be able to warranty the work because the problem was due to a faulty installation where a 4 inch sewage drain pipe was connected to a 3 inch pipe (on the downstream side) and that is a code violation.

After getting nowhere with the original builder and the plumbing subcontractor that did the work, I called the local town plumbing inspector. He asked me to take pictures and email them to him. A few days later he was out to personally inspect the work and noted that there was no record of the work being signed off by the town.

When I told him about my difficulty getting the plumber to respond, he said that wouldn’t be a problem for him because if the plumber tried that little avoidance trick, he’d be contacting the State Licensing Board on the Town’s behalf.

Needless to say, within a week or two the original plumber arrived with an assistant and by the end of the day, the entire faulty plumbing was replaced and I’ve had no problem since.

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Warranty or no warranty, if the defect involves a code violation, you can usually get it corrected if you take the right approach.

Your situation of a 4" toilet drain going into a 3" pipe is pretty obvious as a code violation, which was not the case in our situation. For us, the bottom line was that the issue of the missing sprinkler head was never addressed by anyone. It was not even considered a construction defect! The premises of the powers-that-be in TV (who if push had come to shove could always deny that the sprinkler head was missing from day one) was that there was a warranty period, that period had passed, and that was the end of the discussion.

Had hundreds of homes in TV had missing sprinkler heads and there was a lawsuit won by the homeowners, as with the siding issue, then legally it would have to have been addressed by the developer, long after the warranty period, because then it would have been mandated by the court rather than out of any goodness of heart or goodwill or whatever one may term it. Apparently legal action would be the only way to get an issue like this addressed. It didn't help to be the lone voice with this problem, and fortunately for us it was not a serious problem. It's really best left as it is with our having learned that this is what I can expect from any/all offices within TV management.

Again, it's our hope that if there is another villager with this problem, our posting might help him or her become aware of it.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by Sidney Lanier

Your situation of a 4" toilet drain going into a 3" pipe is pretty obvious as a code violation.....

Well maybe to you it is, but it wasn't to me until it was pointed out by the plumber who came to unclog the blockage that caused a major backup in my home.

And I wasn't trying to compare my particular problem to yours. I was addressing the issue of the applicability of a warranty on any defect which is discovered after a warranty expires but could be proven to have resulted from an installation code violation.

Although it doesn't apply to your situation, the information I provided could be helpful to an owner encountering a faulty installation in which the installer hides behind the warranty.

[Sidney Lanier]

You're absolutely right, EdVinMass, and an important point for all of us to be conscious of. Thanks!

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

I was addressing the issue of the applicability of a warranty on any defect which is discovered after a warranty expires but could be proven to have resulted from an installation code violation.

... [T]he information I provided could be helpful to an owner encountering a faulty installation in which the installer hides behind the warranty.

[inda50]

Sorry to hear about your experience. Great to see someone stand up to try to get the "right thing" done . The frail owners before you were unable. The right thing does not have a time limit. I applaud your effort even though you did not succeed . Bravo!

[chuckinca]

Originally Posted by diskman

Sidney,
I guess you could thank the lord it was recycled water. Could you imagine what 30,000 gallons of drinking water would cost!

From another TOTV thread - drinking water is cheaper than irrigation water!

[Frangyomory]

I am not surprised because the VHA representatives do NOT represent us, the home owners, they are shills for the developer/family! Anyone who thinks they get representation by VHA are simply being fooled.

While it might still be a waste of time, you should send copies of all your correspondence to the POA and see if they can do anything for you. Likely not because the "rules" are on the side of the developer! Surprise!

I don't understand why the water company didn't notice this!!! Oh, yes, the water/utility company is part of the developers oversight!! Doesn't our water bill come together with our trash bill and amenity bill????????

This is my only real gripe here. I LOVE living here but the family rarely accepts responsibility even when they should. In your case, Sid, there is a moral obligation to help you out even though not legal obligation. Had the old fellow, Mr. Schwartz, still been alive you would not be going through this. He would have taken care of it and shaken your hand.

The second and third generation don't give a rats' behind about those of us who have already bought a home here and the VHA rep spoke the only truth to you when they said....yes, the family makes a lot of money and I am glad they do!!! That VHA rep is probably employed in some other capacity by the developer and owes their paycheck to them. They won't ever bite the hand that feeds them.

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by Frangyomory

I am not surprised because the VHA representatives do NOT represent us, the home owners, they are shills for the developer/family! Anyone who thinks they get representation by VHA are simply being fooled.

While it might still be a waste of time, you should send copies of all your correspondence to the POA and see if they can do anything for you. Likely not because the "rules" are on the side of the developer! Surprise!

I don't understand why the water company didn't notice this!!! Oh, yes, the water/utility company is part of the developers oversight!! Doesn't our water bill come together with our trash bill and amenity bill????????

This is my only real gripe here. I LOVE living here but the family rarely accepts responsibility even when they should. In your case, Sid, there is a moral obligation to help you out even though not legal obligation. Had the old fellow, Mr. Schwartz, still been alive you would not be going through this. He would have taken care of it and shaken your hand.

The second and third generation don't give a rats' behind about those of us who have already bought a home here and the VHA rep spoke the only truth to you when they said....yes, the family makes a lot of money and I am glad they do!!! That VHA rep is probably employed in some other capacity by the developer and owes their paycheck to them. They won't ever bite the hand that feeds them.

BINGO! Absolutely accurate. The VHA does neat things for TV as a whole, that is, those approved by the developer (plural) which in truth do add to the quality of the find product they are offering to us, but nothing for individuals with issues. Ironically, the VHA rep is a neighbor whom we know socially as well and is indeed employed in another capacity.

I've harped on my issue with the utility company not noticing that a house that should use 4-5,000 gallons of irrigation water used 6-8 times this amount! Similarly, dealing with what could be considered at the time 'only' a goodwill issue rather than a requirement through the warranties we accept when we buy here is similarly beating a dead horse. For a scant amount of money, or even just an acknowledgment, the developer, through their management, could have built goodwill but instead chose not to make an exception, which must be consistent behavior on their part.

By the time I'd posted the original story, I'd long since given up on beating the dead horse. I just wanted to share the story with my fellow villagers in the hope that it could serve even at least one of them with a similar experience with an egregiously high water bill.

[Quixote]

Im just reading old threads and found this crazy story. I can understand the management not wanting to admit to anything because that could open a big nasty door for them. Do things like this happen often in the Villages?