[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Aldi, maybe, but not Lowes/Walmart. How is it trespassing if the property owners permit/facilitate it and do not implement the obstructions that are necessary before any use of the land can be declared trespass?

But anyone entering the gate without their personal access card would be a trespasser at that point.

No one has permission to cross the property, There has been no letter, degree, or communication indicating you are allowed to cross. Therefore you are trespassing. As for going to Wal-Mart Duke Energy tried to put up a fence. Their thoughts don't get any clearer on the matter. You are trespassing unless you have something from the owner indicating that you are not. So those that go to Aldi, Wal-Mart, Lowes, or any establishment North of the Memory Care Center are trespassing. Also the only reason the villagers can still get to Wal-Mart is because it was the Developer of Stonecrest that got Duke and Wal-Mart to negotiate a solution otherwise it was a done deal to cut it off.

Also as for obstructions the gate was removed at Paradise for at least two years. This whole thing started because of the negotiations in Fruitland Park.

Also to talk about trespassing is off topic for the thread. Its about the damage to the gate. Seems to be getting a bit expensive to continue fixing this gate.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

snipped

Also to talk about trespassing is off topic for the thread. Its about the damage to the gate. Seems to be getting a bit expensive to continue fixing this gate.

Oops, I was just following your lead re trespassing! Perhaps someone with a copy of the posting Mr. Brown had on the construction fences [re permission to use property once a viable route could be established] when building began will start another thread for us. My copy is at my house in TV.

And TV is being reimbursed for gate repair - so no skin off that nose!

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Oops, I was just following your lead re trespassing! Perhaps someone with a copy of the posting Mr. Brown had on the construction fences [re permission to use property once a viable route could be established] when building began will start another thread for us. My copy is at my house in TV.

And TV is being reimbursed for gate repair - so no skin off that nose!

Scan it in and post it so all can see. As for my lead it was not. It started with CFrance. The re-imbursement will stop at some point or the gate will disappear just like it did a few years back. No one is going to continually keep putting money into fixing the gate.

[janmcn]

It's just a matter of time until Mr. Brown sells his property or, worse yet, passes on, so this will all become just a distant memory.

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Don, it looks like you and Gracie totally misunderstood my post.

I loved your post! It was obviously (to me) sarcasm. I have proposed in the past that this board should adopt a different font color for posts that are intended to be sarcasm, because there always seems to be someone who doesn't get it.

Or, was I wrong? Were you being serious when you proposed we let in everyone until our paths get so clogged that the joy of using them is gone? Did you seriously mean, "In fact let's remove the uniqueness of the villages all together." ?


.

This is a misunderstanding Carl. I quess my intention was misguided as I was only joking and I would never truly hope the villages loses it's identity. I hope most people who read my posts know I mostly joke around because some people just get to serious and personal attacks began. We picked the villages for the lifestyle.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by DonH57

This is a misunderstanding Carl. I quess my intention was misguided as I was only joking and I would never truly hope the villages loses it's identity. I hope most people who read my posts know I mostly joke around because some people just get to serious and personal attacks began. We picked the villages for the lifestyle.

I loved your original intent. It was to show that it is possible to destroy The Villages Lifestyle if it is not protected.

Keep it up.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

Scan it in and post it so all can see. As for my lead it was not. It started with CFrance. The re-imbursement will stop at some point or the gate will disappear just like it did a few years back. No one is going to continually keep putting money into fixing the gate.

Am in NJ, Steve!!!! Can't scan it!!!! As you pointed out, it should not be scanned in because it is not about a broken/repaired gate! I guess your response to CFrance was an OOPS before my OOPS!

Hope those Stonecresters who don't already have TV gate access cards cab hold out until the gate is gone or no longer repaired!

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Am in NJ, Steve!!!! Can't scan it!!!! As you pointed out, it should not be scanned in because it is not about a broken/repaired gate! I guess your response to CFrance was an OOPS before my OOPS!

Hope those Stonecresters who don't already have TV gate access cards cab hold out until the gate is gone or no longer repaired!

Going to go off topic again. The people I know that were hardcore still have to go there either got a card from their friends or bought a Street legal. Enough said there.

As I understand how the gate works I still stand by the statements that it needs to be auto-open on village exit and the loops in the ground should not let the gate close if there is a vehicle on the sensor loop. I believe this is why the gate keeps being broken because it works differently then any other gate in the system. I seriously doubt anyone is maliciously breaking the gate. I can see how people being confused and impatience can cause a problem. There are people that are so lazy that they will try and follow a vehicle through instead of waiting for the gate to cycle.

[VT2TV]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Perhaps we are getting to the point that we should request that sarcastic posts be made in bright blue so that no one misunderstands.

The point is well taken that there are still thousands of acres of undeveloped land surrounding The Villages that could be developed into housing tracts by other developers who might provide access to "The Villages Lifestyle" by paving golf cart paths to our unsecured "borders."

Now is the time to cut off all access to our multi-modal paths from the outside and declare that if you want The Villages Lifestyle you must own a home in The Villages.

As the poet Robert Frost wrote, "Good fences make good neighbors."

.

Totally agree!!!

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Having The Villages off limits to golf carts that are not FROM here, when the potential for the number of them being much more than "a few hundred" is only prudent, given that 13 people in The Villages have died from golf cart accidents in the last four years.


We have yet to see the number increase for people with golf carts who will soon live here and pay to live here. (As Carl and Don have so reasonably pointed out.)


Some things are not a right. They are a privilege.




Again, totally agree!!!




I am all for having easily identifiable numbers applied to all Villages carts...as long as it doesn't get to be a bureaucratic mess.

Totally agree!!!

Originally Posted by DonH57

I'm also all for having some type of ID system for golf carts. I'm confident there is a way to do it. I agree that useing a golf cart on village paths and the public streets within is a privilege Gracie.

Me too!!!

Originally Posted by redwitch

Yes, driving is a privilege. However, if a community permits driving a golf cart on PUBLIC roads, then the community does not have the right to stop non-members of that community from using those roads whether in a car, truck or golf cart. People really can't have their cake and eat it, too. That just doesn't work.

No one is trying to stop anyone from driving car, cart, bicycles, etc. on any public property. They are just trying to keep people from trespassing on private property. If I have property that was surrounded by roads that were paid for by the public, I have the right to deny anyone permission to drive anything from 1 public funded road, to another public funded road if it means they are going to cross my PRIVATE property. People are more than welcome to drive their cars on any public road. No one and nothing has the right to cross private property to get there.

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I'm not sure why everyone believes there is this large group of people trying to use Paradise Gate. There is probably at the most 100 people that are pushing for access. Most of those that access TV now either have a card that their friends provided or have street legal carts and cross 441/27. I personally have little use for using the cart to get to Spanish Springs. I have access to all I need without going over there. If I want to go to Outback I use my auto. That's a long boring ride by cart. I used to go to Publix there but the Publix on 42 is a better store. Again that's a long ride through Paradise Gate.

I don't know that I believe that, but even if it is true, it is ridiculosis for that few people to make such of a stink for about 100 people. They want 100,000+ Villagers to have to deal with all the other communities that will want golf cart access, and the increase in MMP traffic, and having to hire more employees to monitor all the pools and public areas 24/7 so that 100 people want to drive their golf cart, when it would be much easier on them to drive their carts. Even though pools and public areas have never been much of a problem to me because I know SC and Sp Cr have their own. But not all people who would want access will have their own sports facilities, and that would be a big problem.

All this talk about putting up the wall again is only because it would help to keep tresspassers out. It would be very inconvient for Villagers to have to deal with the wall just because 100 people want access that would lead to everyone else wanting access.

Originally Posted by CFrance

In which case those people are trespassing. Another reason to have cart IDs. Anyone filmed entering that gate without a TV ID on their cart is doing so illegally.

Originally Posted by Steve9930

The current group is trying to get a crossing at the Hospital, not reopen the gate. The developer will have no direct say in the matter.

Won't happen-too dangerous for hospital traffic.

Originally Posted by Steve9930

If that is true then everyone that goes to Aldi, Lowes, and Walmart on 441 from the villages are also trespassers. You are trespassing on private property. Sounds like a pretty Hypocritical argument to me.

As are the people fro SC and Sp Sr.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by VT2TV

Totally agree!!!









Totally agree!!!








Me too!!!








No one is trying to stop anyone from driving car, cart, bicycles, etc. on any public property. They are just trying to keep people from trespassing on private property. If I have property that was surrounded by roads that were paid for by the public, I have the right to deny anyone permission to drive anything from 1 public funded road, to another public funded road if it means they are going to cross my PRIVATE property. People are more than welcome to drive their cars on any public road. No one and nothing has the right to cross private property to get there.








I don't know that I believe that, but even if it is true, it is ridiculosis for that few people to make such of a stink for about 100 people. They want 100,000+ Villagers to have to deal with all the other communities that will want golf cart access, and the increase in MMP traffic, and having to hire more employees to monitor all the pools and public areas 24/7 so that 100 people want to drive their golf cart, when it would be much easier on them to drive their carts. Even though pools and public areas have never been much of a problem to me because I know SC and Sp Cr have their own. But not all people who would want access will have their own sports facilities, and that would be a big problem.

All this talk about putting up the wall again is only because it would help to keep tresspassers out. It would be very inconvient for Villagers to have to deal with the wall just because 100 people want access that would lead to everyone else wanting access.















Won't happen-too dangerous for hospital traffic.








As are the people fro SC and Sp Sr.

The crossing at the village hospital has a very good chance of being eventually approved. There is now precedence for a golf cart crossing over 441/27 with the state. The Hospital crossing is no dangerous then the one now operational at Spruce Creek.

As for a major increase in traffic from outside access there is no data to support such a conclusion.

As for why the gate keeps being broken. Its for the same reason all the others get broken. This one is worse because it works differently then 99% of the gates in TV on the output side.

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I loved your original intent. It was to show that it is possible to destroy The Villages Lifestyle if it is not protected.

Keep it up.

Thanks Carl. That's what I intended to convey and could have worded it better. I did misunderstand your first response to my post leading to my misinterpretation.

[CFrance]

I'm glad you both understand each other now! I'm familiar with your posts, DonH, and I think you are supportive of TV. And Carl is very levelheaded, even when I don't agree with him!

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

No one has permission to cross the property, There has been no letter, degree, or communication indicating you are allowed to cross. Therefore you are trespassing. As for going to Wal-Mart Duke Energy tried to put up a fence. Their thoughts don't get any clearer on the matter. You are trespassing unless you have something from the owner indicating that you are not. So those that go to Aldi, Wal-Mart, Lowes, or any establishment North of the Memory Care Center are trespassing. Also the only reason the villagers can still get to Wal-Mart is because it was the Developer of Stonecrest that got Duke and Wal-Mart to negotiate a solution otherwise it was a done deal to cut it off.

Also as for obstructions the gate was removed at Paradise for at least two years. This whole thing started because of the negotiations in Fruitland Park.

Also to talk about trespassing is off topic for the thread. Its about the damage to the gate. Seems to be getting a bit expensive to continue fixing this gate.

Well, don't want to be off topic, but I feel it must be pointed out that you misunderstand Florida trespass law.

Absent a "No Trespassing" sign or being told face-to-face by the owner of the property or his authorized representative, a person cannot be charged with trespassing when on the private property of another.

In fact, if you stand in the middle of my lawn and I tell you to leave and you don't leave I can call the police. When they arrive they still can't arrest you for trespassing unless I tell you in their presence to leave and you refuse to leave.

What they can do is issue you a "Trespass Warning" so that if you are found on my property again you can be arrested without me even being present.

So, you see, people transiting across the property you are talking about are not trespassing absent a warning sign or personal warning.

Just a point of law.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Well, don't want to be off topic, but I feel it must be pointed out that you misunderstand Florida trespass law.

Absent a "No Trespassing" sign or being told face-to-face by the owner of the property or his authorized representative, a person cannot be charged with trespassing when on the private property of another.

In fact, if you stand in the middle of my lawn and I tell you to leave and you don't leave I can call the police. When they arrive they still can't arrest you for trespassing unless I tell you in their presence to leave and you refuse to leave.

What they can do is issue you a "Trespass Warning" so that if you are found on my property again you can be arrested without me even being present.

So, you see, people transiting across the property you are talking about are not trespassing absent a warning sign or personal warning.

Just a point of law.

So it would also be the same for any path in the villages. There are no signs on any path within the village limits. The argument is the same. There are no signs at the Paradise Gate so if I travel through the gate I would not be trespassing. If I travel across 441/27 and ride on the paths in the villages I would not be trespassing. Thanks for pointing that out Carl.

[getdul981]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

So it would also be the same for any path in the villages. There are no signs on ny path within the village limits. The argument is the same. There are no signs at the Paradise Gate so if I travel through the gate I would not be trespassing. If I travel across 441/27 and ride on the paths in the villages I would not be trespassing. Thanks for pointing that out Carl.

The gate implies that there is no trespassing. If you don't legally have a gate pass and you go through the gate then you are trespassing. Basically, it's the same as having a door on your home. If you don't have a key and you enter, you are trespassing.