[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Regarding media and brainwashing, what about all the other countries in the world? Worldometer reports on 220 countries with the virus. Can you name one country or place outside of the US where Covid is considered a hoax or insignificant? Even Sweden has stopped their “herd immunity” experiment.

Yes!!!!!! I have been saying that to TV Land now for months. Maybe some are becoming aware.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by blueash

That reply by Golfing Eagle is NOT correct. He made up a number to fit his personal opinion of this pandemic and how it should be managed. The degree of protection provided to the mask wearer is not known and making up an extremely low number is a bald faced attempt to manipulate the reader by a retired physician who should know better. Instead the comment might say the amount of protection is unknown.

Golfing eagle also attempts to slam the reports from the CDC saying this:



He, I would think, knows better. Why is CDC in quotes? He knows how to find CDC reports. Here is what is on the CDC website regarding the issue of masks and protection for the wearer:



The circumstances of the report from Thailand are not similar to everyday use in a community. So do not expect 70% benefit to yourself from mask wearing. Nowhere is a number given and making up a number is irresponsible. CDC reports on their website represent official consensus statements of the CDC. And the CDC is clearly saying that there is enough real benefit of mask wearing for the wearer that they devote a section of their report and much of their conclusion to discussing that benefit.

Yes, it's obviously a fictitious number just to show that personal protection from the usual type of mask is minimal. The CDC was in quotes because I didn't see the statement. The media loves to quote/misquote someone who works at the CDC as if it was the gospel truth.

A retrospective case controlled study from Thailand??????? I can't think of a worse study design. Retrospective studies are suspect in the best of circumstances, and I'm not convinced that Thailand is the definitive word on COVID. Have you considered that the infection rate was down 70% because everyone else around these people were also wearing masks?

Lastly, why did you make this personal? I've never responded to your posts in such a way.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Beware of the basis for the claim other countries have a longer life expectancy. One of the most influential criteria that goes into life expectancy is infant mortality. The US has a higher infant mortality rate than these other countries because we count EVERY live birth, even a 22 week premie that takes one breath and dies. These other countries only count births after 34 weeks, hence the difference in life expectancy.

Also consider that if health care was so wonderful in the National Health Insurance nations, why do royalty, political leaders and billionaires flock to NY or Boston when they have a serious problem, instead of Luxembourg

Thank you. I accept your 1st paragraph as being correct and informative. I do not know all the details of that to be able to disagree. So it seems correct to me. You could have also have made the case that the US allows more immigration (both legal and illegal) than countries like Switzerland and many other European and Asian countries - so statistics get skewed. Like height, for example, the US average height and longevity has decreased recently due to immigration and even the US drug overdose problem.

As to the 2nd paragraph. It is true, but they come here to the US because we have the BEST health outcomes for the upper 1%. It is for the lower 90% that depend on insurance from employment, that the problem of lower health outcomes is in play. Because of not having Universal Health Care the AVERAGE US citizen is worse off "quality of life"-wise than say the average citizen of the UK, or Australia or pick most ANY 1st world country. WE, the US of A are the outlier of world countries. We are the only one dependant on Employer Insurance for health care. The insurance companies of America are the metaphorical VAMPIRE SQUID with its tentacles around the necks of the Average American - sucking the health-blood away!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And how many of those were hospitalized BECAUSE of covid vs. those admitted for other reasons and tested positive????

That would vary from hospital to hospital. But that large number added to the LITERAL cries and actual crying of doctors on TV as they IMPLORE Americans to stay home and take this seriously - From Texas to the Dakotas they are building field tents or getting ready to build them. And the Thanksgiving spike is just beginning! It ALL points to the same thing.......BIG future problems and hospitals being overburdened and Medical care quality dropping - and staffing problems right around the corner ......and then Christmas, which may possibly be the US's greatest historic disaster. It is VERY possible!

[jaj523]

If a person gets multiple positive tests, does each one add to the total? I know several people who tested positive with no symptoms, went back a couple of weeks later and tested positive again. Do both these positives add to the total? If this is true, the number of positive tests reported could be very misleading and way overstated. It took one person I know three tests before he finally got a "negative."

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And once you've done all this "testing", what's your plan for the results????

Then. we will have individual KNOWLEDGE, which will lead to individual RESPONSIBILITY - and that will be something that the PATRIOTIC residents of TV Land can relate to without question. The US citizens do NOT like to be mandated to by the Federal government (they mistrust it) - so, this individual KNOWLEDGE will be the only FORCE that can bring about the outcome that WE ALL desire; that is, stopping the CV Plague. With this FORCE of taking the basic mask, distance, and indoor RISKS into INDIVIDUAL calculation = and added to the oncoming VACCINES, we can and hopefully will, finally achieve REAL, REAL herd immunity!!!!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Sweden doesn't even have the population of Florida and you consistently attempt to hold them up as a comparison to the U.S.? Please............

The dissimilar population numbers of Sweden and the US have nothing to do with my point - which was to disagree with the inappropriate medical system of trying to achieve, so-called, "Herd Immunity" without having a vaccine. It is impossible. I am trying to help! I am on your side!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Thank you. I accept your 1st paragraph as being correct and informative. I do not know all the details of that to be able to disagree. So it seems correct to me. You could have also have made the case that the US allows more immigration (both legal and illegal) than countries like Switzerland and many other European and Asian countries - so statistics get skewed. Like height, for example, the US average height and longevity has decreased recently due to immigration and even the US drug overdose problem.

As to the 2nd paragraph. It is true, but they come here to the US because we have the BEST health outcomes for the upper 1%. It is for the lower 90% that depend on insurance from employment, that the problem of lower health outcomes is in play. Because of not having Universal Health Care the AVERAGE US citizen is worse off "quality of life"-wise than say the average citizen of the UK, or Australia or pick most ANY 1st world country. WE, the US of A are the outlier of world countries. We are the only one dependant on Employer Insurance for health care. The insurance companies of America are the metaphorical VAMPIRE SQUID with its tentacles around the necks of the Average American - sucking the health-blood away!

I disagree with this argument. We have the best health care because of competition, both academic and monetary and for prestige and then throw in a matter of pride and diligence and brilliance. We have attracted the finest physicians from around this world. I cannot tell you how many lived on my street in Cincinnati.

Our systems WORKS and the expertise is extended to many people who cannot afford it, either by the teaching hospitals or by the generous grants and funds and charities established by those who ARE monetarily successful.

If you do not like to use insurance. SAVE YOUR MONEY, but don't take mine. I have never taken a thing from anyone that I didn't work for. Plus the truly kind, the real givers, the kind souls who help are usually very silent about it.

I do not feel any true caring in many posts I read here, just more of the same old "one upmanship" and big mouths.

[jacksonbrown]

a not-so-well-informed, captive audience

What?

I contend that as a group, we are better educated and better informed than any other segment of the population.

And, we are certainly not "captive".

Ask us how we spend our free (retired) time; golfing, dancing, cycling, swimming, pickle ball......

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That is correct and was PROVEN 4 months ago. But AWARENESS has yet to sink in. That is why the US has the world's biggest CV problem. And Florida has just turned red on the US hot spot map.

Then explain why states with strict mask mandates like Pennsylvania are spiking at higher rates than states like Florida. In addition to mask mandates, Pennsylvania has limited indoor dining (none in Philadelphia), as well as many other limitations on businesses and gatherings.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I disagree with this argument. We have the best health care because of competition, both academic and monetary and for prestige and then throw in a matter of pride and diligence and brilliance. We have attracted the finest physicians from around this world. I cannot tell you how many lived on my street in Cincinnati.

Our systems WORKS and the expertise is extended to many people who cannot afford it, either by the teaching hospitals or by the generous grants and funds and charities established by those who ARE monetarily successful.

If you do not like to use insurance. SAVE YOUR MONEY, but don't take mine. I have never taken a thing from anyone that I didn't work for. Plus the truly kind, the real givers, the kind souls who help are usually very silent about it.

I do not feel any true caring in many posts I read here, just more of the same old "one upmanship" and big mouths.

OK, I feel forced to give my answer, which is an opinion just like yours is, and which I respect. To generalize, I see the statements of "American Exceptionalism" coming through loud and clear. You are in good company and MANY people believe that. I believe that it is a PARTIAL truth. It was 100% TRUE starting in about 1950 and continuing until about 1974, which is MY estimate only (others have mentioned different ending dates). As a proof of that.....just one proof among many, but one easily researched......look at a graph for average US worker wages in constant dollars (that eliminates dollar inflation). it shows a consistent increase from 1950 to 1974 - then it begins to level off and stays constant until around 1990 to 2000 (exact date, not important) . This was caused by several factors - increased immigration (both types) - planned weakening of US Unions - increased salaries to CEOs and even University Heads (wonder why student debt went up?) - robotic assembly lines and basic level A.I. - and foreign wars draining US men and treasure.

The end result was intentional and it increased Corporate power and profits and drove the Global Economy while leaving behind the average US worker. Note: that did NOT happen in Germany where management and unions made peace and have bathed in the glory of high GNP and quality of life because of it! Now today A.I. and robotics have improved and soon will cause CHRONIC unemployment for around 30% of US citizens. We will live to see that!

Now on to INSURANCE......it is a subject too large. I can try quickly to scratch the surface. Why is the US the only country that links insurance to employment?......you must study post WW1 to get the background. .......Richard Nixon proposed Universal Health Care - Mitt Romney had a fully functional version in Massachusetts when he was Governor......see a pattern? The VA and medicare are National Health Care programs. In the future, the US WILL universally accept Universal Health Care! - hope that helps.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I disagree with this argument. We have the best health care because of competition, both academic and monetary and for prestige and then throw in a matter of pride and diligence and brilliance. We have attracted the finest physicians from around this world. I cannot tell you how many lived on my street in Cincinnati.

Our systems WORKS and the expertise is extended to many people who cannot afford it, either by the teaching hospitals or by the generous grants and funds and charities established by those who ARE monetarily successful.

If you do not like to use insurance. SAVE YOUR MONEY, but don't take mine. I have never taken a thing from anyone that I didn't work for. Plus the truly kind, the real givers, the kind souls who help are usually very silent about it.

I do not feel any true caring in many posts I read here, just more of the same old "one upmanship" and big mouths.

If you do an internet search you will find that we do not have the best healthcare in the world. We do however spend the most money.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jacksonbrown

a not-so-well-informed, captive audience

What?

I contend that as a group, we are better educated and better informed than any other segment of the population.

And, we are certainly not "captive".

Ask us how we spend our free (retired) time; golfing, dancing, cycling, swimming, pickle ball......

What about the paper and yesterday's front-page picture of bad Health Care habits and modeling. What about the "happy paper" description that I have often heard. What about the "bubble mentality" that I often hear about TV Land. Why was the comic strip "Doonesbury" removed some years back from the paper? Did NOT the secret SS police capture "Doonesbury".......as a communist conspirator?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

If you do an internet search you will find that we do not have the best healthcare in the world. We do however spend the most money.

WHERE would you find better health care than at The Cleveland Clinic, Philadelphia Childrens, Anderson Cancer, Johns Hopkins, The Mayo?

WHERE?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

If you do an internet search you will find that we do not have the best healthcare in the world. We do however spend the most money.

Absolutely spot on. - Most wasted taxpayer money and outcomes around 30th in the free world.