[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by LndLocked

WOW ... I just noticed that I mistakenly typed STRWMD ... instead of the correct acronym of SJRWMD.

Guess that makes my posting null and void as well.

.

[jandbrare]

One poster asked "How long has Paradise Lake been this way?" As I've said, Paradise Lake is a natural basin that was adopted as a storm drainage/retention pond/lake during the early development of The Villages. The following series of photos shows the basin wet and dry over the years. The photos were passed to me after being obtained from Lake County Files.











Thought you readers would like to see them.

Jerry Lester

[OnTrack]

Thanks for the pic's.

It looks like the lake has had the same issues for many years.

Interesting that the AAC/POA is now being blamed by some, for what the developer could/should have taken care of...... long ago.

.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by OnTrack

Thanks for the pic's.

It looks like the lake has had the same issues for many years.

Interesting that the AAC/POA is now being blamed by some, for what the developer could/should have taken care of...... long ago.

.

I agree ---why blame the POA? However, I also agree that a major effort should be made to attempt to make the situation whole. Mistakes are human----to fix a mistake takes action.

[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by justjim

I agree ---why blame the POA? However, I also agree that a major effort should be made to attempt to make the situation whole. Mistakes are human----to fix a mistake takes action.

Excellent point!

.

[graciegirl]

It still isn't clear to me who is responsible for this problem and who has the authority to fix it? Dredging apparently adds danger to causing sinkholes. "Mother may I" has to go to the proper water district. I am pretty sure they own their own golf courses on that side and they don't look quite as spif as others south of there.

I hope the developer isn't to blame. I think so well of him. I worry when things are put in the hands of the residents entirely.

I think that the area north of 441/27 is governed differently than the rest of us, but I don't know exactly how, or why?

BKCUNNINGHAM? Where are you girl?????? I bet you know the answers..

[blueash]

The photos are a great resource. Thank you for adding them as they make very clear that this lake has been empty or nearly empty many times prior to the appearance of The villages. Nature is nature and shouldn't always be seen as requiring human intervention which so often makes things worse. Perhaps the area could instead be hidden with a substantial berm or dense plantings. My reading is that the POA took absolutely no position on this issue and merely reported the information given at several AAC meetings.

[LndLocked]

Do any of those that favor "doing something" to this former seasonally dry "Lake" that is now a seasonally low "retention pond" (for all practical purposes), all in the name of esthetics, have any idea of the cost involved??

You are talking a multi million dollar project. The engineering study alone into this boondoggle would cost prob $100K+. Who do you think should fund this???

Then it would be an excellent idea to get that same funding source to see if they can do something about the root cause of the seasonal fluctuation of water height ...... rain fall or the lack thereof.

[njbchbum]

graciegirl - you asked how i feel about this...well...lemme tell ya!

as a villages snowbird for but 5 yrs, i do not know the history that goes with what seems to be an ancient topic - about which nothing has been done, nor apparently resolved. but i do know that it is a shame to watch the birds, ducks, and white pelicans try to frolic, get a drink or take a bath in a mud puddle when there is no water level to speak of.

and i do know that the failure of the acc, the developer, lady lake, lake county, the water mgmt authority, and any other party/parties that could do something about the water level [or lack of water] is a serious disappointment to me. the excerpt from the minutes of the 3/13/13 acc budget committee meeting below is just one published article re the various attitudes toward adressing the issue. everything is personal opinion and an unwillingness to even consider steps to obtain a professional opinion, much less a professional review and report.

and lndlocked's post is yet another! to lndlocked i reply that i pay my amenities fees like every other resident; and those dollars go to support MANY villages facilities and activities in which i do not take part - golf, pools and rec centers come to mind real quickly. i may not agree with how my amenity fees are spent - but i appreciate the things they support because they will be there when and if i choose to use what the money has been spent on. and to lndlocked - you make me feel that you believe the residents in the historic do not deserve more than personal opinion...opinion is free and a review/report would cost money; a lot of money!

statements made by the acc comm members and the post by ldnlocked contribute to the feelings that are sometimes felt which make me think that the historic district is the wicked stepchild of the villages that has been written off by residents to our south and supervisors who think that they and their districts are better than we and our neighborhoods are!

but ya know what - i wouldn't live in any other villages neighborhood!

from the 3/13/13 acc budget comm mtg:

“EIGHTH ORDER OF BUSINESS: Paradise Lake
Chairman Wilcox advised the Committee that he requested this item be placed on the agenda following requests to address the water level within Paradise Lake and the maintenance condition from some residents. Chairman Wilcox stated this Committee addressed these same issues pertaining to Paradise Lake approximately one year ago but requested Staff provide an overview of the issue. Ms. Tutt stated the Committee previously addressed this topic of excavating and lining Paradise Lake and
chose not to proceed due to the proposed cost which Staff anticipates could increase substantially due to the unknown issues that could occur; such as permitting. The lack of water is not an issue only at Paradise Lake as many preserves and Water Retention Areas (WRA) within The Villages are greatly lacking in water. Ms. Tutt stated she appreciates the suggestions to excavate only a few feet of Paradise Lake but stated a few feet could have unintentional consequences. Staff is not recommending proceeding with any changes to Paradise Lake.

“Chairman Wilcox inquired if this Committee would like to re-address the topic of Paradise Lake.

“Mr. Bell stated an offer was made by the Developer many years ago to dredge Paradise Lake, at no cost to the residents, which was refused by the residents. At this time Mr. Bell stated he does not believe the thoughts of the majority of the residents in the area have changed and would be opposed to proceeding with any excavation/lining of Paradise Lake.

“Mr. Lambrecht stated he has reviewed a study a resident wanted to present to the Committee which basically addressed evaporation of water level; however, the study did not occur in this portion of the State and was conducted many years prior. Mr. Lambrecht stated he is totally against proceeding with any type of excavation and/or lining of Paradise Lake and stated there is no viable solution to address the level of Paradise Lake until regular rainfall is received.

“Ms. Forrester stated she is concerned that the Committee is making a decision about Paradise Lake at a Workshop where it was previously stated audience comments were not to be permitted and believes the Committee should defer a decision until the next meeting. Mr. Bell and Mr. Lambrecht both referred to several occasions when the Committee received public comment pertaining to this topic many times previously.
Following further discussion the Committee reached a consensus not to proceed with excavation and/or lining of Paradise Lake.”

ps - does mr bell not think that in the amount of time between today and ‘…many years ago...’ that ‘...the thoughts of the majority of the residents in the area have changed…’? sheesh! Who the he** do messrs bell and lambrecht think they are?

[The Flash]

Gracie, of course the developer isn't to blame. But, you don't think for a moment if new homes could be built there he wouldn't use the power he has to remedy this. I don't blame him, he is a business man. However, I would think out of respect for Mr. Schwartz who lived in the historical section, he would do his best for the residents living there.

[Mikeod]

Let's see. Photos of Paradise Lake prior to TV show a lake that is often dry. So that appears to be its natural state. Residents want something done so that the lake always contains water, similar to Lake Sumter. The AAC indicates this is an old topic that went nowhere in the past, even before the AAC existed. Concerns about cost and unintended consequences from dredging seem to sway the argument.

Where does Lake Sumter get its water? Is there a source of water similarly at Lake Paradise or is it entirely dependent on rain? Seems that when I was at Hilltop, there was a stream of water pouring into the lake near the fire station. Where does that water come from? Is that a possible source to keep more water in the lake?

Since historically the lake has been dry a lot of the time, how would dredging help keep water in it if we don't have rain? Wouldn't that just make the dry hole deeper? Are there connections to other retention ponds that could allow water to be transferred to Lake Paradise? And, if so, wouldn't that be just robbing Peter to pay Paul?

I suspect that Lake Sumter has the ability to drain excess water to Lake Miona's watershed if we get a lot of rain. Is there a method to drain Lake Paradise in the same event, or is that the reason for dredging? If so, then we are back to the original question of the benefit of making a deeper dry lake.

[LndLocked]

I have NO problem with the "Historic Side". My posting was simply to point out that:

- As shown in the pictures of this lake, it has ALWAYS suffered from seasonal / rain fall driven VAST fluctuations in water level.

- That any possible "cure" would be very expensive.

I would feel EXACTLY the same way if Paradise Lake was south of 466 or in my back yard.

Your problem is not with me and my opinion .... it is with the ACC, it's position on this issue and it would appear your own neighbors. I will admit I am not sure of the nature of serving on the ACC but if they are elected positions, I suggest you work to having member elected that are aligned with your position on Paradise Lake. Further, If you think that the will of the people has changed, as the previously rejected an offer by "the developer" to do the work on their nickle, then you need to mount a grassroots campaign to show that they now support this project.

[njbchbum]

mikeod - you ask some great questions. it's too bad that the acc budget comm and others are not willing to get a professional review/report to answer same just because it has been discussed and no one wanted it done or wanted to pay for it many, many years ago!

so much might have changed since 'many, many years ago' that there could be different alternatives today - would especially like to hear from the water management authority re same!

i don't know that dredging is the answer - especially with the fragility of the land being what it is in florida. but transferring water among retention ponds is a frequent practice by water management authorities...the pond behind my mother's home in martin downs [palm city, fl] had frequent variations in depth - resident and migrating water fowl appreciated any significant depth!

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by LndLocked

I have NO problem with the "Historic Side". My posting was simply to point out that:

- As shown in the pictures of this lake, it has ALWAYS suffered from seasonal / rain fall driven VAST fluctuations in water level.

- That any possible "cure" would be very expensive.

I would feel EXACTLY the same way if Paradise Lake was south of 466 or in my back yard.

Your problem is not with me and my opinion .... it is with the ACC, it's position on this issue and it would appear your own neighbors. I will admit I am not sure of the nature of serving on the ACC but if they are elected positions, I suggest you work to having member elected that are aligned with your position on Paradise Lake. Further, If you think that the will of the people has changed, as the previously rejected an offer by "the developer" to do the work on their nickle, then you need to mount a grassroots campaign to show that they now support this project.

* glad to see that you don't think that you have a problem with the historic side.

* because the lake has always suffered must it continue to suffer?

* how can you state that any cure would be very expensive when potential cures are not even known?

* my problem is with comments like yours [as well as with the acc] - it reinforces the acc budget comm decision/opinion and fails to encourage a new review of the issue.

* obviously, the will of SOME folks has changed - you can see in the mtg mins that representative ms wilcox was shot down for trying to have the issue given a new looksee and one can see in mr. lester's post here that he is obviously frustrated, too; the comm accepted but apparently was not interested in a petition he presented of those so concerned. and then there is me! you can bet that when i return next snowbird season i WILL start tearin' up the grass by its roots to find folks who are just as concerned - and i'll start with that petition that mr lester presented to the comm! it will be great exercise to go door-to-door throughout the historic side!

[schmitty]

Njbchbum -
I'll be looking forward to your knock on my door when you return. The 'historical side' is beautiful and those of us who live here would welcome this issue to be discussed again. There are many of us who have become owners in the past few years who would love to see Lake Paradise be beautiful year round.