[Steve9930]

[quote=looneycat;794886]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

so you don't know about the CDD system that GOVERNS The Villages? I don't know, this whole thing stinks of sour grapes from someone who thought that by buying outside the villages they could make use of facilities we paid for, wanna use the multi-modal paths? pay for the right like I do!

CDDs are Political Municipalities. They have no legal right to make any laws. Read the law. They do not have a right under the law to collect fees from the general public. Its the reason the developer could issue Tax Free Bonds. The only thing I see here is a lack of knowledge.

[Big O]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

You understand you purchased into what is legally called a Political Municipality? Look up the definition and once you understand that then you'll understand what and why access will never be denied. Did it ever occur to you why you never see a Do Not Trespass sign anywhere? Why The Villages has no Mayor, or City Consul, or Police Force. Once you understand the law then write me a note.

If you are talking about the roads I might agree, but the golf cart paths are privately funded and not part of the Municipality. This is just my opinion as well as everything else in this thread is just somebody's opinion. Just like a number of other issues we will have to wait until the judge rules, everything else is pure conjecture.

Just sayin......

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

The Villages has no legal right to make or enforce laws. You cannot do what you suggested. LSVs where owned by a Village resident or an outsider do not and should not be on the Golf Cart Paths. They have been designed for street use. using them on the paths puts others in danger.

?????????
How is driving an LSV any more dangerous than a golf cart while on a MM path????[/QUOTE]

Speed, size, and weight versus size and weight. LSV belong on the road not on Golf cart paths.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by cabo35

I couldn't agree with you more Steve. I hope Stonecrestors get their access to hospitals, doctors, stores and shops legally across 441/27. They need to remember that the cart trails and paths in The Villages, except those sharing public roads, are NOT public, they are private, paid for and maintained by Villagers. I am sure Stonecrestors are honest and law abiding. I couldn't imagine them sneaking onto a cart path to get to, lets say, Lake Sumter Landing or Brownwood, or all those wonderful Villages funded, Villages lifestyle, exclusive amenities in between.

A few years back I played with foursome at Lopez. One of the golfers, a Stonecrestor, was a friend of one of the foursome. He graciously invited the group to play at his home course at Stonecrest. I rode with him and was treated to a four hour presentation on why Stonecrest was a smarter and better investment than The Villages. He got more living space for less money. Lower maintenance cost and no trail fees. Real manned gates that kept the undesirables out and, as advertised, he had unfettered access to Village cart trails, bridges and most amenities. He emphasized how much less it cost him to live in Stonecrest several times. I think he liked me, he invited me back. I have not taken him up.

You are right Steve. Stonecrestors should "understand what they bought into". They should not be crying foul now and making Villagers the target of their frustration when someone issues a reality check. I am certain the great majority of Stonecrestors, like you, are good, honest, salt of the earth people with no axes to grind. A few have made harsh sometimes intimidating public statements that result in "in kind" responses that escalates ill feelings between good people of both communities.

Some have suggested a user fee as a compromise. That makes more sense than subsidizing endless and costly litigation.

I thought the fee idea was a great idea for those that wanted access. Unfortunately not an option under current Florida Laws. I would hope those that need Golf Cart Access to the Medical Facilities would get their wish. Just like Spruce Creek South that wanted access to Walmart. I do not see how anyone could be so callus that they would be against their Florida neighbors from having access to health care facilities just because a few golf carts may use something they pay a fee for its maintenance. If thats the case maybe Ocala should put up a toll booth for every car that drives into the city.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Maybe I'm missing something.......but those "highways" that "run through The Villages" such as where Red Lobster, I.H.O.P., etc. are located, are PUBLIC ROADS........and those businesses are open to all the public, correct?

Originally Posted by chuck90199

They still advertise cart access to The Villages. This is on their website this morning.

At the Stone Crest Country Club .....
And take a short golf cart ride to all the amenities in The Villages, including shopping, healthcare and entertainment.

Originally Posted by lpkshop

They can access all our stuff by car so what's the difference ? I don't see the problem

Originally Posted by Steve9930

Seems as I read all these posts that some people believe that the shops and restaurants are Village property. They do not belong to The Villages, they belong to the developer. They are a public enterprise open to the public.

Originally Posted by Steve9930

The facts are all the stores, shops, parking, Hospital, and roads do not belong to The Villages. It would serve everyone well if they understand how these communities are developed and what they actually purchased into before they kick the sand into the air.

Originally Posted by looneycat

you seem to be the one trying to rewrite the law, the only parts of the villages that must be open to the public are the roads and businesses,[*]the golf cart paths are NOT public, we villagers pay for their maintenance!
outsiders are free to use golf cart trails on county roads which are open, but once you go onto one of the multi-modal paths you are on our private property! you don't contribute to their use. I'd be happy to see them open those gates again with a 5.00 use toll to go thru!

Hopefully Looneycat has answered the "Maybe I'm missing something" question. We all understand that The Villages movie theatres, restaurants and shops are open to non-Villagers. The angst is about golfcart access to our multi modal paths, it's not about car access to the businesses.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Hopefully Looneycat has answered the "Maybe I'm missing something" question. We all understand that The Villages movie theatres, restaurants and shops are open to non-Villagers. The angst is about golfcart access to our multi modal paths, it's not about car access to the businesses.

The reason this all started again is from the news article which stated Stonecrest was still trying to get access to the villages. The article is totally misleading as that is not the case. There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Big O

If you are talking about the roads I might agree, but the golf cart paths are privately funded and not part of the Municipality. This is just my opinion as well as everything else in this thread is just somebody's opinion. Just like a number of other issues we will have to wait until the judge rules, everything else is pure conjecture.

Just sayin......

You know you can rent a Golf Cart over at Spanish Springs and travel the paths all day long.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by cabo35

I couldn't agree with you more Steve. I hope Stonecrestors get their access to hospitals, doctors, stores and shops legally across 441/27. They need to remember that the cart trails and paths in The Villages, except those sharing public roads, are NOT public, they are private, paid for and maintained by Villagers. I am sure Stonecrestors are honest and law abiding. I couldn't imagine them sneaking onto a cart path to get to, lets say, Lake Sumter Landing or Brownwood, or all those wonderful Villages funded, Villages lifestyle, exclusive amenities in between.

A few years back I played with a foursome at Lopez. One of the golfers, a Stonecrestor, was a friend of one of the foursome. He graciously invited the group to play at his home course at Stonecrest. I rode with him and was treated to a four hour presentation on why Stonecrest was a smarter and better investment than The Villages. He got more living space for less money. Lower maintenance cost and no trail fees. Real manned gates that kept the undesirables out and, as advertised, he had unfettered access to Village cart trails, bridges and most amenities. He emphasized how much less it cost him to live in Stonecrest several times. I think he liked me, he invited me back. I have not taken him up.

You are right Steve. Stonecrestors should "understand what they bought into". They should not be crying foul now and making Villagers the target of their frustration when someone issues a reality check. I am certain the great majority of Stonecrestors, like you, are good, honest, salt of the earth people with no axes to grind. A few have made harsh sometimes intimidating public statements that result in "in kind" responses that escalates ill feelings between good people of both communities.

Some have suggested a user fee as a compromise. That makes more sense than subsidizing endless and costly litigation.

Well said, Cabo. Very well said.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

?????????
How is driving an LSV any more dangerous than a golf cart while on a MM path????

Speed, size, and weight versus size and weight. LSV belong on the road not on Golf cart paths.[/QUOTE]

Steve9930: I happen to agree with you. Personally I always felt it was unsafe and unfair to have LSV's use multi-modal pathways mainly because of safety issues (the 20mph restriction). some may say that there is no speed limit on the multi-modal path ways and that police have no authority, I agree but these are canards like many illuminating from Stonecrest.

First the 20mph rule, perhaps police can't ticket you for exceeding 20 mph on the multi-modal path ways but they do on the roads for having an unregistered vehicle. So they are in effect policing the speed of unregistered carts which exceeds 20mph. Label it any way you choose

The complaint from Stonecrest is that (x) number of residents do not have driver licenses and therefore need their carts. I would like to know how many actual Stonecrest residents were talking about and why they do not possess a driver licenses . I mean if the state of florida refuses to issue a driver's license to them there well good be a safety issue here. Perhaps like the guy from Oxford who had a difficulty seeing and used our cart paths running down a pedestrian.

I also see another Stonecrest canard ...are some residents feeling buyers remorse. is that what this is really all about?

This issue isn't about good or bad people its about choices and its about protection of our investment. Clearly we can't and shouldn't interfere with commerce, restaurants, town squares, etc but we paid highly for our amenities which included the multi-modal pathways.

I expect and demand the Developer keep his promise that I was buying into a Lifestyle because if a person can live outside the villages and still enjoy the "Lifestyle" then I have a whole lot of questions.

finally I don't want to hear that non residents can't use pools rec cents etc.
Frankly there are some villagers who never use a rec center, a pool etc but they still pay for the right to. IF someone is going down that road of a logical progression then I countering with perhaps we ought to make amenities divisible. I don't use rec centers pools, et so I don't want to pay for them................get my drift. Its all or nothing for us and so it has to be all or noting for outsiders. You want to use your cart to view the gardens from the multi-modal paths move to The Villages there still are a lot of homes for sale

[jbdlfan]

I owned and operated a LSV in and around TV for six years. Other than the license plate you never knew what it was. Top speed is only allowed at 25 mph. Most regular carts drive faster than that. As far as the Stonecresters using our facilities, how about better enforcement of the rules by the Rec. Dept. first. I personally despise the idea of more rules, laws or fees. Just enforce what is in place and all will be fine.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

The reason this all started again is from the news article which stated Stonecrest was still trying to get access to the villages. The article is totally misleading as that is not the case. There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital.

There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital................................which will then give them access to The Villages.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Speed, size, and weight versus size and weight. LSV belong on the road not on Golf cart paths.

Steve9930: I happen to agree with you. Personally I always felt it was unsafe and unfair to have LSV's use multi-modal pathways mainly because of safety issues (the 20mph restriction). some may say that there is no speed limit on the multi-modal path ways and that police have no authority, I agree but these are canards like many illuminating from Stonecrest.

First the 20mph rule, perhaps police can't ticket you for exceeding 20 mph on the multi-modal path ways but they do on the roads for having an unregistered vehicle. So they are in effect policing the speed of unregistered carts which exceeds 20mph. Label it any way you choose

The complaint from Stonecrest is that (x) number of residents do not have driver licenses and therefore need their carts. I would like to know how many actual Stonecrest residents were talking about and why they do not possess a driver licenses . I mean if the state of florida refuses to issue a driver's license to them there well good be a safety issue here. Perhaps like the guy from Oxford who had a difficulty seeing and used our cart paths running down a pedestrian.

I also see another Stonecrest canard ...are some residents feeling buyers remorse. is that what this is really all about?

This issue isn't about good or bad people its about choices and its about protection of our investment. Clearly we can't and shouldn't interfere with commerce, restaurants, town squares, etc but we paid highly for our amenities which included the multi-modal pathways.

I expect and demand the Developer keep his promise that I was buying into a Lifestyle because if a person can live outside the villages and still enjoy the "Lifestyle" then I have a whole lot of questions.

finally I don't want to hear that non residents can't use pools rec cents etc.
Frankly there are some villagers who never use a rec center, a pool etc but they still pay for the right to. IF someone is going down that road of a logical progression then I countering with perhaps we ought to make amenities divisible. I don't use rec centers pools, et so I don't want to pay for them................get my drift. Its all or nothing for us and so it has to be all or noting for outsiders. You want to use your cart to view the gardens from the multi-modal paths move to The Villages there still are a lot of homes for sale[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how many people need access to the Hospital via Golf Carts. I myself use an automobile to get around if I have to cross 441/27. Its unfortunate that the article that started this fire storm again was so misleading. A sign of the time, sensational journalism to attract readers. The fact is there is a group of residents in Stonecrest that are trying to get a Golf Cart Crossing approved by the County and State so Golf Carts may cross 441/27 between the Hospital and the Doctors offices at the light. That is the total story. Now will some people use that crossing to get down to Spanish Springs, or Sumter landing, I'd be a liar if I said that would not happen but I'd also think it was pretty callus of people if they oppose that crossing just because a few carts will go on farther. The fact of the matter is if I wanted to take a ride around the villages by Golf cart today all I need to do is go and rent a cart at a very reasonable price. I personally would use the crossing on the day I would need to see the FAA Flight Surgeon when I get my biannual Flight Physical who is in the Sharon Morris Building. Saves some gas.

I've also been across the bridge via Golf cart. The bridge is an accident waiting to happen. Its is very dangerous from and engineering point of view. Even when I could get across there by Golf Cart, I'd prefer the car it was a much safer choice.

[Big O]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

You know you can rent a Golf Cart over at Spanish Springs and travel the paths all day long.

Yes, and you are paying for the privilege. That's all this is about.

[perrjojo]

Saying that many Stonecrest residents need golf cart access because they no longer have a drivers license seems like a very poor argument. A person no longer able to drive should not be considered safe to drive any motorized vehicle.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital................................which will then give them access to The Villages.

So, you can't deny a lawful petition based on the possibility of someone using a Golf Cart path to get to Spanish Springs or on to any other of the Town Squares.