[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

You mean decorum like this?

Obviously not!

That little guy is almost a requirement (sorry P Bear)

More like nasty name calling, the kind the rest of us outgrew in grade school

[cquick]

I do think it's a great plan to lower the speed limit to 45 MPH in that area. There is a new shopping center going up on the south side of Hwy. 44, and the existing shopping center at Publix, so the speed limit should be 45MPH

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by cquick

I do think it's a great plan to lower the speed limit to 45 MPH in that area. There is a new shopping center going up on the south side of Hwy. 44, and the existing shopping center at Publix, so the speed limit should be 45MPH

That really isn't a bad idea, after all the speed limit drops shortly past Grand Traverse headed west anyway, and the eastbound traffic can certainly wait another 3/4 mile to speed up to 55. I guess the government decision on this may depend on whether speed, rather than stupidity, was determined to be a factor in the accidents that have occurred there.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by photo1902

...Case closed...

Only in your mind.

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Only in your mind.

that matters most!

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by photo1902

that matters most!

Not when driving...'right' matters most.

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Not when driving...'right' matters most.

And for that reason, I err on the side of safety, rather than trying to save a few minutes in traffic.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by photo1902

And for that reason, I err on the side of safety, rather than trying to save a few minutes in traffic.

You are not erring on the side of safety. Making a left turn on a green ball at a properly designed intersection is perfectly safe. And it significantly increases the traffic handling capacity of an intersection...without compromising safety.

You are never 100% safe using any transportation system. But you are as safe making a left-turn-yield movement as you are anyplace else in the system. And that includes going past the stop bar as oncoming traffic approaches, then proceeding when a gap appears. Or if there is no gap, you wait for the signal to turn red...not yellow, red...and then complete your left turn while being aware of possible red-light-runners. You have plenty of time to safely complete the left turn in any case. And it is perfectly legal to complete your left turn on the red light as long as you were in the intersection PRIOR TO the light turning red.

By the way, "Don't Block the Box" refers to blocking an intersection such that you can't move after your light turns red. That keeps opposing traffic that has green from moving and in a worst case scenario causes gridlock. It does NOT refer to a left turner awaiting a gap or a signal change to complete a turn into an open lane.

Just for the record, I am a Professional Engineer in the State of Florida. I have a Masters Degree in Transportation Engineering from the University of Florida. I worked in the field for roughly thirty years before retiring.

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

You are not erring on the side of safety. Making a left turn on a green ball at a properly designed intersection is perfectly safe. And it significantly increases the traffic handling capacity of an intersection...without compromising safety.

You are never 100% safe using any transportation system. But you are as safe making a left-turn-yield movement as you are anyplace else in the system. And that includes going past the stop bar as oncoming traffic approaches, then proceeding when a gap appears. Or if there is no gap, you wait for the signal to turn red...not yellow, red...and then complete your left turn while being aware of possible red-light-runners. You have plenty of time to safely complete the left turn in any case. And it is perfectly legal to complete your left turn on the red light as long as you were in the intersection PRIOR TO the light turning red.

By the way, "Don't Block the Box" refers to blocking an intersection such that you can't move after your light turns red. That keeps opposing traffic that has green from moving and in a worst case scenario causes gridlock. It does NOT refer to a left turner awaiting a gap or a signal change to complete a turn into an open lane.

Just for the record, I am a Professional Engineer in the State of Florida. I have a Masters Degree in Transportation Engineering from the University of Florida. I worked in the field for roughly thirty years before retiring.

I was referring to those who creep out into the intersection waiting for the yellow so they can make a turn. And you damn sake better err on the side of safety when you drive.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by photo1902

I was referring to those who creep out into the intersection waiting for the yellow so they can make a turn. And you damn sake better err on the side of safety when you drive.

I know you were. And as long as they wait either for a gap or for the signal to turn red (not yellow) they are making the left turn properly...and safely.

[photo1902]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I know you were. And as long as they wait either for a gap or for the signal to turn red (not yellow) they are making the left turn properly...and safely.

Agreed.

[bagboy]

How many cars can cross the stop bar and wait on a red light to make their left turn at one time ? Safely and legally?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by bagboy

How many cars can cross the stop bar and wait on a red light to make their left turn at one time ? Safely and legally?

Probably 2 or 3, but I NEVER pull into the intersection behind a car that has already done so---you lose all control of the situation and are now dependent on the actions of the guy in front of you, not a good idea, especially in TV. As far as the light changing red and getting stuck in the intersection, it rarely happens, not if you are paying attention, but while you may draw a horn or a finger, I doubt anyone who was stopped in the cross road would accelerate right into you when the light changes

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by bagboy

How many cars can cross the stop bar and wait on a red light to make their left turn at one time ? Safely and legally?

It really just depends on the geometrics of the intersection. But like GE said, if you're not the first, you have lost some control of the situation.

As far as getting stuck in the intersection when the light turns red, it should never happen. You must keep the signal in view and be aware when it changes to red. Then, you complete your turn after making sure all the approaching traffic is stopping. There is plenty of time to do this safely. At larger intersections, there is usually a brief, 1-2 second all-red phase between a change of green phases. This is specifically to allow clearing of the intersection, insuring safety against yellow-light-stretchers/red-light-runners, and allowing left turns to be completed.

[Miles42]

Stop all the crap about right turn on red. To many think they have the right away over on coming traffic. Lets just have red means stop no exceptions.