[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=Walter123;1188641]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

O
"Entering the intersection just to wait for the light to change so you can make the turn is absurd."----Don't remember saying THAT. But if I am the first car in line to make a left, I will pull up to the center line of the cross road, since I will turn on yellow if needed. Do you stay back at the end of the turn lane? If so, and since you state you cannot see what is coming, you then sit there as the light turns red? That is essentially a self imposed red turn arrow, except that you are imposing it on everyone behind you as well.

GE, I agree with most of what you say except that I think that it's against the law to wait in the middle of the intersection to make a left turn. I think the law states you cannot block the intersection. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You cannot block an intersection, but by pulling forward when the light is green in your direction, you are not blocking it, unless you sit there until it turns green in the opposite direction.

[Bogie Shooter]

A classic P!$$ing contest.....................

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

A classic P!$$ing contest.....................

Of course. Isn't that what makes TOTV a great forum?

[golfing eagles]

And here's another example of why we all have to drive defensively and be thinking all the time, from just yesterday:

Exiting Hillsborough gate to go south on BV, I took the inner lane to go around 270. Some yahoo tailgated me through the gate and continue to ride 5 feet off my rear bumper. As we got 1/4 around, another bozo coming from the north on BV failed to yield the right of way and entered the RB in the outer lane right alongside me, then made an obscene gesture as I used my horn (for safety reasons, of course). Now, being quite familiar with this RB there were 2 possibilities: Either she was unaware of the bypass lane and was going to head south on BV (1%) or she was going to go around 270 to the Hillsborough gate (99%). So I slowed down and let her get ahead, at which point the guy behind me leaned on his horn to get me to speed up! Of course, the lady did exactly as predicted---headed to the gate. If I did not slow up because of awareness of the likely scenario, there would have been a 3 car accident. They both deserved a one finger salute, but that would have left me steering with my knees. The worst thing is that, even though I was the only one driving through the RB correctly, I would have had both front end and rear end damage as they sandwiched me!

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=Walter123;1188641]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

O
"Entering the intersection just to wait for the light to change so you can make the turn is absurd."----Don't remember saying THAT. But if I am the first car in line to make a left, I will pull up to the center line of the cross road, since I will turn on yellow if needed. Do you stay back at the end of the turn lane? If so, and since you state you cannot see what is coming, you then sit there as the light turns red? That is essentially a self imposed red turn arrow, except that you are imposing it on everyone behind you as well.

GE, I agree with most of what you say except that I think that it's against the law to wait in the middle of the intersection to make a left turn. I think the law states you cannot block the intersection. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Absolutely correct! It is in opposition to the law. There is even a catch phrase for it. "Don't block the box." The "box" is a rectangle or square created by imaginary (or sometimes painted) lines. It consists of the space where cars coming in from all directions might intersect.

[Walter123]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1188643]

Originally Posted by Walter123

You cannot block an intersection, but by pulling forward when the light is green in your direction, you are not blocking it, unless you sit there until it turns green in the opposite direction.

I tried a quick google and really couldn't find a definitive answer. The only thing I would worry about would be someone coming straight through from the opposite direction when they have a yellow light too. Usually that guy will be accelerating. I have been in this situation and left in the middle of the intersection when the light turns red and if more than one guy wants to beat the yellow light you could find yourself in a bad situation.
It's a gray area because you can't predict what other drivers will do. So I guess it depends on the situation before I would know what I would do.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=dbussone;1188659]

Originally Posted by Walter123

Absolutely correct! It is in opposition to the law. There is even a catch phrase for it. "Don't block the box." The "box" is a rectangle or square created by imaginary (or sometimes painted) lines. It consists of the space where cars coming in from all directions might intersect.

You're not blocking it, you are passing through it. The phrase you quote was intended for urban traffic where drivers pull straight thru to the end of a back up that leaves them in the intersection when the light changes, thus creating gridlock. You have to experience it in Midtown Manhattan to have full appreciation of the effect.

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1188661]

Originally Posted by dbussone

You're not blocking it, you are passing through it. The phrase you quote was intended for urban traffic where drivers pull straight thru to the end of a back up that leaves them in the intersection when the light changes, thus creating gridlock. You have to experience it in Midtown Manhattan to have full appreciation of the effect.

I have experienced traffic in Manhattan, Boston (for years), LA, etc And the traffic we have here this time of year is already pretty nasty. If you stop in the box, you are not passing through it. And if you are still there when the light changes, you will be blocking it.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=dbussone;1188668]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I have experienced traffic in Manhattan, Boston (for years), LA, etc And the traffic we have here this time of year is already pretty nasty. If you stop in the box, you are not passing through it. And if you are still there when the light changes, you will be blocking it.

Agreed---just don't be there when the light changes. And as I posted above, don't enter it when it is obvious you are not going to be able to turn safely due to oncoming flow of traffic. What I'm really getting at is the times when 1 or 2 cars are coming and the light won't change for a while, which are the same times that a red arrow would be a detriment rather than an enhancement.

[golfing eagles]

From Florida statutes:
316.151 Required position and method of turning at intersections.�
(1) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:
(a) Right turn.�Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

(b) Left turn.�The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at any intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle, and, after entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. A person riding a bicycle and intending to turn left in accordance with this section is entitled to the full use of the lane from which the turn may legally be made. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.

Interestingly here's what the Florida DMV has to say about the line for a left turn backing up into the left highway lane:

6.If you are not going a safe speed or are not in the proper lane you should drive to the next intersection to make your turn. And if there are vehicles occupying the turn lane you should not block traffic. Continue on to the next intersection.

Now how many of us actually do THAT?????

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

From Florida statutes:
316.151 Required position and method of turning at intersections.�
(1) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:
(a) Right turn.�Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

(b) Left turn.�The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at any intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle, and, after entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. A person riding a bicycle and intending to turn left in accordance with this section is entitled to the full use of the lane from which the turn may legally be made. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.

Interestingly here's what the Florida DMV has to say about the line for a left turn backing up into the left highway lane:

6.If you are not going a safe speed or are not in the proper lane you should drive to the next intersection to make your turn. And if there are vehicles occupying the turn lane you should not block traffic. Continue on to the next intersection.

Now how many of us actually do THAT?????

It's weird the way the quots and responses are coming out.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Of course. Isn't that what makes TOTV a great forum?

I have been drawn into quite a few and I don't have the right equipment and it gets very uncomfortable.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I have been drawn into quite a few and I don't have the right equipment and it gets very uncomfortable.

You know , GG, that I try to avoid them as well. But sometimes a poster just needs to be called out, if not for an off-base opinion but for their decorum

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1188681]

Originally Posted by dbussone

Agreed---just don't be there when the light changes. And as I posted above, don't enter it when it is obvious you are not going to be able to turn safely due to oncoming flow of traffic. What I'm really getting at is the times when 1 or 2 cars are coming and the light won't change for a while, which are the same times that a red arrow would be a detriment rather than an enhancement.

We agree.

[Bogie Shooter]

You mean decorum like this?