[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by billethkid

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself.

The more tickets and the higher the cost the better.

At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according.

Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good itizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

There's a difference between the police doing their job and harassing people for minor violations.

The US Supreme has ruled that a lot of those little towns that set themselves up as speed traps are in violation of the constitution.

In the end, the job of the police is to protect the public. Giving a ticket to a driver going 1 or 2 mph over the limit is not protecting anyone. Those drivers are not endangering anyone.

Most judges will toss out cases where a driver is cited for going 5 mph or less over the limit. They will often reprimand the officer for wasting the court's time.

[Average Guy]

Florida state law is that if you are driving 5mph or less over the speed limit (barring any unusual circumstances like a stopped school bus), there is no fine, only a warning.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by mulligan

10mph over the bridge at Lake Sumter

I B guilty of speeding here.

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

Where do people come up with the 19.9 mph? The law says 20 mph. Also you have the terms wrong. A LSV is allowed to go 25 mph and is street legal. A golf cart is limited to 20 mph and can only travel on roads with 30 mph speed limit or less.

It beats me why the 19.9 keeps coming up. The max speed limit for carts is 20 mph. I think the confusion lies with the fact on carts, gas or electric at 19.6 mph the cart is set to throttle down. In an earlier post someone mentioned do gooders celebrating someone getting a speeding ticket for doing 21 mph. I celebrate when someone in a golf cart on a rare occasion gets a speeding ticket for doing 26 mph passing another cart doing 20 on morse blvd. Chances are they are the same ones passing on blind curves of the cart paths.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by billethkid

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself. The more tickets and the higher the cost the better. At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according. Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good citizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

Originally Posted by gerryann

At the meeting Police presence was asked for. Now you have Police presence. Are you really gonna complain because they are now there and doing their job??? Lets hope they stay and nab a whole bunch more. .... Can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

I agree with the above two posts. It's so simple -- The Police can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

[gerryann]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

There's a difference between the police doing their job and harassing people for minor violations.

The US Supreme has ruled that a lot of those little towns that set themselves up as speed traps are in violation of the constitution.

In the end, the job of the police is to protect the public. Giving a ticket to a driver going 1 or 2 mph over the limit is not protecting anyone. Those drivers are not endangering anyone.

Most judges will toss out cases where a driver is cited for going 5 mph or less over the limit. They will often reprimand the officer for wasting the court's time.

With all of the talk about lack of police presence on Morse near the scene of the accident, I'm so surprised to now see folks complaining that they are there doing their job. DONT SPEED, then you don't have to worry about it.

I do not think the police are giving out tickets for going 1 or 2 over......seriously!! And I don't think they are out "harassing" anyone either.

[gerryann]

AND...... I agree. It would be fantastic to see officers out there doing NOTHING but picking out the violators.

[Jim 9922]

As I understand it, the ticket blitz is the sheriff's answer to the original purpose of the meeting; to make safety improvements to the road/cart path. You can plaster the whole road with tickets but nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built.
You are mixing carts at 800 pounds with 3600+ pound vehicles, with the carts traveling at 2/3 the speed of the bigger vehicles and with only about 3 feet of separation. Then you force carts to cut across 2 traffic lanes to make a left turn or to enter traffic if turning in from a side street (depending on which way you are going); not to mention the southbound Russian roulette game required to get to the tunnel under HY 466.

To my knowledge almost all of the cart accidents have been from errors or lack of judgment in turning, not speeding cars and carts running over each other.

They say vehicle counts are up to 15,000 per day. Assume that 80% of that is from 9AM and 5PM, and deduct another 20% more for vehicles that only travel short distances. So maybe you have a "steady stream" of 9,600 vehicles during the 8 hour day busy time. Divide that by 480 minutes in an 8 hour day and you have a vehicle passing every 3 seconds. (even halve my numbers and you have a vehicle every 6 seconds) Top that off with a long stretch of the road without any traffic signals and many side streets funneling in traffic at a random rate. So, you have no "blocking" of vehicles that allow traffic-free spaces for turning across lanes. AND IT IS WORSE AT THE SOUTH END AT THE 466 GATE where the gate keeper's main function is to cram, as fast as possible, 2 lines of cars into one lane going North. They could care less that 5, 7, or even sometimes 10 carts can be stacked up southbound in the middle of Morse trying to make the left turn onto the cart path to get to the 466 tunnel!

So what is really needed? A tunnel at the HY 466 crossover, a separated golf cart path moved over on the existing shoulder of the road, and if not that, a series of traffic lights timed to control the flow of traffic.


Will any of that be done? Probably not. The roads are the responsibility of the County and I don't see it spending any money to correct the Developer's original errors in design and implementation. So what will probably happen, the cops will continue to write tickets, collect money for the County coffers, and say all is well until there are a couple more bad accidents and the whole complaint cycle begins again.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by newguyintv

Are you talking about Cars or Golf Carts. The golf cart lanes on the bridge are so narrow that someone is bound to be killed there eventually. And by the way, why would anyone be ticketed for going 21 on a road whose speed limit is higher than that. OH, you mean golf carts whose max speed limit on public streets is 20 mph. Golf cart going 21 mph is like a car going 40 in a 35 mph zone. Both should be ticketed.

I'm sure you never roll through a stop sign, or forget to use your turn signal, go two or three miles over the speed limit. And going 21 in a cart is not like a car going 40 in a 35 zone. It's like a car going 36.75 mph in a 35 zone.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by outlaw

I'm sure you never roll through a stop sign, or forget to use your turn signal, go two or three miles over the speed limit. And going 21 in a cart is not like a car going 40 in a 35 zone. It's like a car going 36.75 mph in a 35 zone.

THERE ARE SOME of us who stop at all stop signs AND always use our turn signals.

We are usually first born, have never been behind on a bill and still save our money. AND were born and raised in Ohio.
Sometimes we do inch past the speed limit. No one is perfect.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Jim 9922

As I understand it, the ticket blitz is the sheriff's answer to the original purpose of the meeting; to make safety improvements to the road/cart path. You can plaster the whole road with tickets but nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built.
You are mixing carts at 800 pounds with 3600+ pound vehicles, with the carts traveling at 2/3 the speed of the bigger vehicles and with only about 3 feet of separation. Then you force carts to cut across 2 traffic lanes to make a left turn or to enter traffic if turning in from a side street (depending on which way you are going); not to mention the southbound Russian roulette game required to get to the tunnel under HY 466.

To my knowledge almost all of the cart accidents have been from errors or lack of judgment in turning, not speeding cars and carts running over each other.

They say vehicle counts are up to 15,000 per day. Assume that 80% of that is from 9AM and 5PM, and deduct another 20% more for vehicles that only travel short distances. So maybe you have a "steady stream" of 9,600 vehicles during the 8 hour day busy time. Divide that by 480 minutes in an 8 hour day and you have a vehicle passing every 3 seconds. (even halve my numbers and you have a vehicle every 6 seconds) Top that off with a long stretch of the road without any traffic signals and many side streets funneling in traffic at a random rate. So, you have no "blocking" of vehicles that allow traffic-free spaces for turning across lanes. AND IT IS WORSE AT THE SOUTH END AT THE 466 GATE where the gate keeper's main function is to cram, as fast as possible, 2 lines of cars into one lane going North. They could care less that 5, 7, or even sometimes 10 carts can be stacked up southbound in the middle of Morse trying to make the left turn onto the cart path to get to the 466 tunnel!

So what is really needed? A tunnel at the HY 466 crossover, a separated golf cart path moved over on the existing shoulder of the road, and if not that, a series of traffic lights timed to control the flow of traffic.


Will any of that be done? Probably not. The roads are the responsibility of the County and I don't see it spending any money to correct the Developer's original errors in design and implementation. So what will probably happen, the cops will continue to write tickets, collect money for the County coffers, and say all is well until there are a couple more bad accidents and the whole complaint cycle begins again.

I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

The gate keepers do a wonderful job of controlling the two lanes merging into one. Rather than contributing to the problem, as you seem to suggest, they make it safer.

I've never had a problem crossing over to make a left hand turn. I simply check my mirrors and am aware of my surroundings, use both electric and hand signals and change lanes when it is safe. It's only one lane that you have to cross by the way.

The same goes for getting to the tunnels going southbound. I find that once I signal with both my lights and hand cars slow down to let me in. On very rare occasions, a car does not let me go, so I wait for the next opportunity.

You mention "all of the golf cart accidents". I've lived here for three years and can only recall two. And, as you say, they were both caused by operator error and had nothing to do with the infrastructure.

There was also the incident where a driver had a medical episode and struck a bicyclist.

None of those had anything to do with the way that the road is built.

Having said that however, I do agree that it would be best if the paths were removed to off the roadway itself. That certainly would have prevented the three incidents that I mentioned. But, we need to look at what that would Buena Vista. Then, several tunnels would have to be built. I'd say three to four. The cart paths would have to accommodate two way traffic as they do everywhere else in TV. Is there enough room on both sides the entire length to build them? The areas where the paths would go are currently used for drainage. Can a system be designed and engineered to build cart paths an retain the drainage function? Is some of that property privately owned by homeowners whose homes back up to Morse?

I'm sure that there are many more questions that would have to be answered before a project like this could be attempted. A feasibility study would have to be done first to determine if it's even possible. Then the money has to be discussed.
i'm thinking we're talking about tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Who is going to pay for it.

I agree with. I will never be done.

[njbchbum]

Jim 9922 - You posted, "...nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built." Might you know what the design standards were back when the road was developed in the 1980s; and what the design errors were that should not have been made?

Despite the difficulty in crossing Morse at the gate near 466 - does anyone know the accident stats at that location in the past few years? Would it be greater/fewer than the number of incidents at Morse/466A?

[Jim 9922]

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;1066732]I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

I realize that in reality there is not a vehicle passing EVERY 6 Seconds. The "calculation" was intended to make a point. There are a lot of cars traveling that road. In practice there are "blocks" of traffic which do allow for left turns, but things do get hairy at times, especially during the Winter Season. As for the 466 southbound crossover; that's where someone will eventually get hit by a car coming out of the "starting gates".

[JoMar]

All great posts, until they show up and ask the residents to fund the projects. People will start losing part of their properties to accommodate relocation of the traffic since tunnels and MMP's are not County tax issues. Those changes would not be a PWC issue so the CDD's would need to figure out how to pay for them. But, if it is as dangerous as many believe it is they might be willing to either pay for it or accept it for what it is and live with it. The accidents are always driver error, misjudgments, lack of patience or distractions.....some by the cart driver, some by the car driver but never (that I know of) mechanical error, the roadway forcing a vehicle into another or the gate keeper. My opinion is that a good start is enforcement since drivers will need to be trained.