[Pturner]

It seems most of us agree that it is NOT okay:

• for outsiders without guest passes to use TV amenities.
• for TVers to allow their visitors to violate the rules.

The debate is about whether there is a better enforcement solution than the one in place-- one that would not punish TVers more than it helps us, either by forcing us out of the pools for ID checks or costing us an arm and a leg to catch very few violators.

An argument could be to made that outside violators should be charged with a misdeanor crime such as trespassing or theft of services. However, it's probably not practical, since CW are not law enforcement officers.

As for TVers allowing their young guests to break the rules, would it be practical to fine these TV residents with violating their covenent, as is done for other violations? I'm with Dillywho on this. I am offended by adults who act as poor role models for youngsters, and who allow young people in their charge to disobey the rules. Yes, maybe we all break rules ocassionally, but to teach young people to be liars and cheats is disgraceful.

[NJblue]

I disagree that if you only check those outside the pool that you will eventually catch the violators under the assumption that they won't be in the pool all the time. It doesn't take a genius to break that system - since the ID checks take a fair amount of time, all a "perp" has to do is slip into the pool as soon as he/she sees a card check occurring.

What I don't understand is why they use the village ID card for pools. Why not use elastic bracelets with a small badge attached to it that all pool users must have on their wrists at all times? The residents would have a badge with their ID number on it and it would be a unique color (which possibly could change every year). Guests would be issued a different colored badge. When a resident picked up guest passes they could also pick up a corresponding number of pool badges but be required to put a $5-10 deposit on each one which would be returned once the guest badges are returned.

This way you could go to the pool and not have to take your wallet with your ID card in it with you, or have to take the ID card out of your wallet - and then have to remember to put it back after you come back from the pool. You would also be able to immediately see who is allowed to be in the pool and who is not, without forcing everyone to fumble through their wallet to find their ID card.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just how big is the "problem".....just wondering?

[chuckinca]

Where to you start enforcing the rules . . . with one, ten, one hundred, one thousand people using amenities that do not belong to them?


.

[swrinfla]

I'm inclined to echo Bogie Shooter:

Is there really, really a problem????????????????

True, I hear it all the time, but are there really non-Villagers taking advantage of our amenities?

I assume that the answer is,"Yes." But, I also assume that the transgressions are minor, minor!

Am I wrong?

SWR

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Frankly, I really don't care if one or two people manage to sneak in and use our facilities. Even so, I understand it is the rule and, thus, should be enforced. So, I'm sort of with you, Vinny -- if they're going to check, they should have a system to check everyone -- not just the loungers. Maybe a card reader at each pool so that the gate won't open without an ID card since they really can't have someone be on duty at the pool on a continuous basis.

You understand I am not saying that they should or should not check ID. All I am saying is that if they are going to check then do it right. After all, we are paying for this so if it is just for show let's use the money for some thing else. Sometimes false security is worse than no security.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Larryandlinda

maybe a 'dunking stool' for those that illegally enter the pool...
No, wait, that would be like suspending a kid for skipping school




Though we own homes in TV, we have to trade in the card back and forth to renters frequently, and since we usually come to stay during the dog days when the pools are empty (the pool police can outnumber the guests) and hot as a bathtub, sometimes we don't have the card.
It would be nice to be able to prove we are not renegade seniors crashing the party.
Like a near-empty restaurant that encourages patrons to park in the front and seats them in the front window, it's 'better for business' to have people at the pool during the slower times.

We vote for a little flexibility from the pool cops and legislators.

L and L

I think it would be a good idea to issue two cards per person. I carry my card in my wallet but do not take my wallet with me to the pool. Hard to carry in a speedo. it is easy to forget to take it with you. Just the past few days I have heard people say that they left their ID in their other pocketbook, purse, wallet, etc. Just charge for the extra ID cards so only those with a need spy for them.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by dillywho

I don't really understand why some think it is ok for "occasional" outsiders to use our pools. If that's the case, why do we have to have an ID, period? Everyone screams bloody-murder when someone other than Villagers want to play golf on the executive courses but not about the pools. We pay for the pools with our ammenity fees just like we do for the rec centers and golf courses, so what's the difference? Those who pay extra for the country club pool privileges don't want the non-payers there either, even if they are Villagers. Why? Because those with memberships pay and expect others not to be there.

I don't know how many of you remember that Katie Belle's used to be open to anyone. When it got to the point that the Villagers could not get in because non-Villagers kept it filled, then it went to a private status for Villagers and their guests only. When the non-Villagers first started going there, it was no big deal, either.

Why wait until it is a big deal at the pools? Rules are rules and not just when you feel like it.

I have been to Katie Belle's twice and have never been asked for an ID or have seen them ask anyone else. When I first moved here I was surprised to find that the guard gates are mostly for show as they cannot stop anyone from entering. Found that out when I was waiting to close on my home and my brother-in-law would drive me here and when asked where he was going would respond with some off the wall place like the Villages' strip club, Seaworld, Empire State Building, etc. Each time he would receive a smile and be waved through. Each time he would turn to me and warn me not to be lulled into a false sense of security. Now were my cousin lives in NJ, you cannot get in unless the gate guard has been notified in advance or they are able to reach you by phone to get an OK. Two extremes. I did not like my cousin's system after I was denied entry to her BBQ party because she forgot to submit my name and could not hear her phone from her yard. I never visited her again.

[jdsl1998]

If you don't like the rules...you don't have to play the game. When you break the rules, the rule followers, like me, get jealous. I'd love for my sons to join us when the pools not crowded but they are not of age. I'd love to have a float in the pool but if everyone breaks that rule, no room in the pool. Dang!

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by Vinny

You understand I am not saying that they should or should not check ID. All I am saying is that if they are going to check then do it right. After all, we are paying for this so if it is just for show let's use the money for some thing else. Sometimes false security is worse than no security.

I don't think spot checking ID badges at the pools promotes a false sense of security. I think it just means that some, but not all, violators get caught.

How is that different from the way public roadways are patrolled? Most of the time, speeders and those who run stop lights, etc. are not caught. They merely run the risk of being caught. In areas where traffic violations are numerous and/or cause accidents or impede traffic flow, patrols tend to be increased. It's just a matter of putting limited resources where they will do the most good.

I'm not saying enforcement could not be improved. However, just because enforcement isn't perfect doesnt mean it's either unjustified or unhelpful. I'm glad that badges are at least spot checked.

[Vinny]

You are approaching it from someone using the pool who is not a resident viewpoint. I am thinking more along the lines of letting in people with bad intent. Perhaps someone who wants to steal things out of your unattended bag. Someone who is there trolling for his next victim. For me, this is why I think security is important. Someone sneaking in for a dip is not going to be a danger to my family. Perhaps I have seen too many evil things done by bad people to view this as a simple "you can't use the pool" issue. Then again my job is to prevent the worst from happening so that may raise my level of concern.

[jblum8156]

When my daughter visits with her two young girls we usually go to a rec center, usually Odell. My daughter insists on taking the girls to the desk to have IDs checked because she thinks it's a good lesson for them about responsibility. Of course there's no desk at smaller family pools, but there could be someone stationed at the gate at random times as a deterrent.

[Bogie Shooter]

To infer that there is stealing at the pools without any data to back it up is wrong. I would not be in favor of adding pool monitors or off duty police to insure no one steals my towel or for that matter to keep out non residents. No one has come forward to share the number of violations. If there is a problem then it can be addressed.
As another poster has said on an other thread.....what a waste of key strokes and hand wringing.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Vinny

You are approaching it from someone using the pool who is not a resident viewpoint. I am thinking more along the lines of letting in people with bad intent. Perhaps someone who wants to steal things out of your unattended bag. Someone who is there trolling for his next victim. For me, this is why I think security is important. Someone sneaking in for a dip is not going to be a danger to my family. Perhaps I have seen too many evil things done by bad people to view this as a simple "you can't use the pool" issue. Then again my job is to prevent the worst from happening so that may raise my level of concern.

I don't really think or worry about evil much around here, but many do. I suppose it has a lot to do with your life experiences and/or where you come from. Things are more dangerous than they used to be everywhere I know but no more dangerous here than at our country club pool back in Ohio IN MY OPINION.

I don't take anything with me but a towel when I go because I walk. Most of the time I remember to take my I.D. I am absent minded, and always have been. I don't take a bag with money, (nothing to buy), with sun tan lotion, (don't use it.) Sometimes I remember to take my sunglasses. I go to the Odell pool and so far I have not seen anyone who I think doesn't live here. They annoyed me a couple of times when they checked my I.D. because I have chatted several times with the person at the desk as we go in and out of Odell frequently, and I thought that she would remember me. (silly me)

They do come out almost always when I go and usually we are in the water. Dear Daughter and I usually don't sunbathe. We live within site of the pool and use it for a quick dip a couple of times a day.

I don't think there is a problem at Odell anyway.

[Jakel]

I think the idea of the wristband is a good one. Everyone in the pool would know you belong there. We use a beach tag at our Jersey Home Lake, and you just pin it on your bathing suit, but a wristband is even more viewable, and would put the entire problem to rest. To pay for the bands perhaps a small fee could be charged for Visitors...our community charges $2 for each extra Tag, and also for Lost Tags.