[collie1228]

It's very interesting to read the differing contributions to this thread. There is the opinion that the Sentinel and its employees have a vendetta against The Villages, and will go to any length to sell newspapers, even to the point of dissing the Morse family. They have tasked their evil columnist to study the IRS report and share her biased opinion (wow, isn’t that a novel concept, a newspaper employing a columnist who writes biased opinions – and by the way, what other kinds of opinions are there?). On the other end of the spectrum are people (TV wannabes like me) who have never really fully understood the financial foundation of The Villages, and are now learning that maybe there could be a problem in paradise – and maybe they should be extra careful before spending their hard-earned retirement nest egg in support of Mr. Morse’s possible tax problem with the IRS. And then there are those in the middle who have already purchased property in TV, who need as much information as they can get so they can sleep at night. It seems to me that the people in the first category would like this all to just go away with the wave of a magic wand, and blame it all on the Sentinel, especially their biased columnist. In other words, shoot the messenger.

What does Lauren Ritchie know anyway? Well I’ll tell you what she knows – which I now know too, as I’ve now read the IRS report (caveat – the parts of the report that put me to sleep were only skimmed). There is an unanswered IRS report that concludes that Mr. Morse booked a $53 Million gain on sales in his corporation’s 2003 tax return, which was the direct result of selling property to the Villages Community Development District, who in turn issued tax exempt bonds. And the IRS now says that the gain did not meet the legal requirements for a tax exempt bond issue, which casts doubt on all of the Community Development District’s previous tax exempt bond issues. You should know all that too, but you probably wouldn’t have known if the biased Sentinel columnist hadn’t brought it up. Admittedly, the IRS can be wrong, and have been proven wrong many times in the past; that’s why there is a federal tax court. I sincerely hope they are wrong in this case too, but I am impressed with the detail and logic in the IRS Report, and will be equally interested in reading the Community Development District’s response, which according to the IRS Report, would have been due on February 22.

“Sentinel” - a person employed to keep watch for some anticipated event.

[golfnut]

with Muncle, I was, hold that thought, have to get ready for my 11:00 tee time, wait, maybe I should cancel that tee time (and the function I was attending tonight at Laurel Manor) and sit here and worry about what is going to happen here, that's what Lauren wants us to do...........right...........GN

[Whalen]

Originally Posted by collie1228

It's very interesting to read the differing contributions to this thread. There is the opinion that the Sentinel and its employees have a vendetta against The Villages, and will go to any length to sell newspapers, even to the point of dissing the Morse family. They have tasked their evil columnist to study the IRS report and share her biased opinion (wow, isn’t that a novel concept, a newspaper employing a columnist who writes biased opinions – and by the way, what other kinds of opinions are there?). On the other end of the spectrum are people (TV wannabes like me) who have never really fully understood the financial foundation of The Villages, and are now learning that maybe there could be a problem in paradise – and maybe they should be extra careful before spending their hard-earned retirement nest egg in support of Mr. Morse’s possible tax problem with the IRS. And then there are those in the middle who have already purchased property in TV, who need as much information as they can get so they can sleep at night. It seems to me that the people in the first category would like this all to just go away with the wave of a magic wand, and blame it all on the Sentinel, especially their biased columnist. In other words, shoot the messenger.

What does Lauren Ritchie know anyway? Well I’ll tell you what she knows – which I now know too, as I’ve now read the IRS report (caveat – the parts of the report that put me to sleep were only skimmed). There is an unanswered IRS report that concludes that Mr. Morse booked a $53 Million gain on sales in his corporation’s 2003 tax return, which was the direct result of selling property to the Villages Community Development District, who in turn issued tax exempt bonds. And the IRS now says that the gain did not meet the legal requirements for a tax exempt bond issue, which casts doubt on all of the Community Development District’s previous tax exempt bond issues. You should know all that too, but you probably wouldn’t have known if the biased Sentinel columnist hadn’t brought it up. Admittedly, the IRS can be wrong, and have been proven wrong many times in the past; that’s why there is a federal tax court. I sincerely hope they are wrong in this case too, but I am impressed with the detail and logic in the IRS Report, and will be equally interested in reading the Community Development District’s response, which according to the IRS Report, would have been due on February 22.

“Sentinel” - a person employed to keep watch for some anticipated event.

Thank you.
Some of this is actually starting to make sense and I can also see possible financicial troubles in paradise, with or without the IRS ruling.
At the end of the day do your home work and make your decision to purchase, or not, an informed one.
And always caveat emptor.

[jtdraig]

jibi's Avatar jibi's Avatar


When is my next tee time?

[iaudit]

Originally Posted by Muncle

I am not a lawyer or an accountant, nor do I even play one on television, but it seemed to me that Dom makes a lot of leaps in logic that don't necessarily follow. It appears that many of Dom's opinions are assumed as fact.



`

Could you share with us some of these leaps of logic????

[Muncle]

Originally Posted by iaudit

Could you share with us some of these leaps of logic????

No, I won't bother. This is a preliminary report seeking comment from TV, a strawman as it were. I trust the legal and financial reps of TV will be doing a much more efficient and effective job than I could possibly do in enumerating the report's inadequacies.

But I reiterate, the subject of this thread is Ms Ritchie's column, and a concurrent reading of the IRS report should not be a requisite in order to glean "facts" from Ritchie's screed.





`

[iaudit]

Muncie, you talk about her not backing up statements with facts by Ms. Ritchie and you do the same thing. I recall a number of posts where you have made inaccurate statements on other threads and you still try to come off sounding as all knowing. If you can not debate an item with civility, why don't you just stay out of it.

[shermark]

Unbelievable that some of you are directing your anger at Lauren Ritchie. Your anger ought to be directed at Gary Morse for this debacle. I find it impossible to believe that he was totally unaware of the IRS rules regarding tax exempt bonds. If he is retaining this California law firm who are experts in tax exempt bond laws, they either gave him lousy advice or they counselled him correctly and he chose to ignore the rules. Then your anger should also be directed at the fact that the property appraisers must be an independant group, but did that happen? No it did not. Do you think maybe they appraised your property too high. These appraisers were hand picked by Gary Morse. That's another law broken. And you should be really ticked off to the fact that you have absolutely no say so in this. You Villagers are the ones who are footing the bill for all these amenities and half of that pays off these bonds and you have no representation ?? In todays political climate, the way to handle controversy is to attack the messenger and not the real issues. Attacking Lauren Ritchie and the IRS agent is a waste of your time and blood pressure. If I were you, I would get together with the POA and some savvy attorneys who live in TV and I would start showing up at Gary Morses office and demand some answers. You are talking about your hard earned money here and the expenses you have paid to live there. If this is not resolved in your favor, I can see some residents on fixed incomes having to move because they can no longer afford to live there. I would hope this case is not dragged out in court and that it is resolved quickly. Some of you want this to play out over months and months. Do you want to wake up every morning over a long period of time not knowing what is going to happen with this mess ? Uncertainty can be very stressful. So stop ignoring the real issues here and going after Ms. Ritchie. Direct your anger at Gary Morse. He is the one who is going to have to answer for this situation he has gotten you into. After all, he's running the boat.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by shermark

Unbelievable that some of you are directing your anger at Lauren Ritchie. Your anger ought to be directed at Gary Morse for this debacle. I find it impossible to believe that he was totally unaware of the IRS rules regarding tax exempt bonds. If he is retaining this California law firm who are experts in tax exempt bond laws, they either gave him lousy advice or they counselled him correctly and he chose to ignore the rules. Then your anger should also be directed at the fact that the property appraisers must be an independant group, but did that happen? No it did not. Do you think maybe they appraised your property too high. These appraisers were hand picked by Gary Morse. That's another law broken. And you should be really ticked off to the fact that you have absolutely no say so in this. You Villagers are the ones who are footing the bill for all these amenities and half of that pays off these bonds and you have no representation ?? In todays political climate, the way to handle controversy is to attack the messenger and not the real issues. Attacking Lauren Ritchie and the IRS agent is a waste of your time and blood pressure. If I were you, I would get together with the POA and some savvy attorneys who live in TV and I would start showing up at Gary Morses office and demand some answers. You are talking about your hard earned money here and the expenses you have paid to live there. If this is not resolved in your favor, I can see some residents on fixed incomes having to move because they can no longer afford to live there. I would hope this case is not dragged out in court and that it is resolved quickly. Some of you want this to play out over months and months. Do you want to wake up every morning over a long period of time not knowing what is going to happen with this mess ? Uncertainty can be very stressful. So stop ignoring the real issues here and going after Ms. Ritchie. Direct your anger at Gary Morse. He is the one who is going to have to answer for this situation he has gotten you into. After all, he's running the boat.

You say "You villagers" & "if I were you"
I take it you are not a Villager.....where is your dog in this fight?

[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by iaudit

If you can not debate an item with civility, why don't you just stay out of it.

I don't see where Muncle wasn't civil. He took a crack at the POA but other than that? He may not agree with your position but it was not in an uncivil manner in my opinion. Being uncivil would be something like the user who PM'ed me today and called me a jerk. How juvenile is that? There's no need for that. Everyone can discuss their points and we can debate them and in the end everyone wins since we are then more informed.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

I don't see where Muncle wasn't civil. He took a crack at the POA but other than that? He may not agree with your position but it was not in an uncivil manner in my opinion. Being uncivil would be something like the user who PM'ed me today and called me a jerk. How juvenile is that? There's no need for that. Everyone can discuss their points and we can debate them and in the end everyone wins since we are then more informed.

I respect your opinions Russ and also Muncles. I know that you both have a dog in this fight. Reading Ritchies article struck terror to my heart simply because I don't understand the background information.

I don't deify the developers, but I don't think they are greedy either.

[iaudit]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

I don't see where Muncle wasn't civil. He took a crack at the POA but other than that? He may not agree with your position but it was not in an uncivil manner in my opinion. Being uncivil would be something like the user who PM'ed me today and called me a jerk. How juvenile is that? There's no need for that. Everyone can discuss their points and we can debate them and in the end everyone wins since we are then more informed.

....people who bemoan the fact that they do not understand the concepts of bonds and amenity fees

...seemingly wallow in that ignorance rather than try to learn

...scream bloody murder about half truths written by an admittedly biased opinion columnist

...living in ignorance.

...to the auditor or whatever

...Ritchie and her hatchet job of a column

... got was her Chris Matthews imitation with a tingle running down her leg as she read or referred to Dom's conclusions

... Ritchie so snarkily implies

... maybe she can investigate the dog park on 466A or the lack of indoor pools. And don't be surprised if she picks up a freelance gig, say something like a monthly column in the POA bulletin.



These are from his previous posts, do you consider this civil discourse??

[UpNorth]

We've been renting a house in The Villages during the month of December for several years now. We think the Villages is a great place, maybe too good to be true. When we first took our lifestyle preview (back in the days when there was a waiting list for housing) we were tempted to buy. My wife, being more skeptical than me, would ask questions to the real estate agent. Who exactly is "The Villages"? Where is the "government"? Who has a say around here? Needless to say, the answers given were both misleading and confusing. Consequently, we never bought, but always look forward to renting a couple of months in this adult wonderland. It is great. However, we feel that the system that helped to develop The Villages is bogus, and that all the residents may soon find themselves left with a rude surprise. In light of what is going on now, I certainly will continue to rent and not buy.

[Russ_Boston]

Ok, a few of those Muncleisms were a little, let's just say, slanted. Maybe I've just learned to read them with a smile on my face. But most of them were aimed at the writer and not members of this board.

But those are his opinions and as my signature says "I (he) might be wrong!".

I know that I will keep a close eye on what happens with this tax issues as it may effect future home prices etc.

[djl8412]

Originally Posted by collie1228

It's very interesting to read the differing contributions to this thread. There is the opinion that the Sentinel and its employees have a vendetta against The Villages, and will go to any length to sell newspapers, even to the point of dissing the Morse family. They have tasked their evil columnist to study the IRS report and share her biased opinion (wow, isn’t that a novel concept, a newspaper employing a columnist who writes biased opinions – and by the way, what other kinds of opinions are there?). On the other end of the spectrum are people (TV wannabes like me) who have never really fully understood the financial foundation of The Villages, and are now learning that maybe there could be a problem in paradise – and maybe they should be extra careful before spending their hard-earned retirement nest egg in support of Mr. Morse’s possible tax problem with the IRS. And then there are those in the middle who have already purchased property in TV, who need as much information as they can get so they can sleep at night. It seems to me that the people in the first category would like this all to just go away with the wave of a magic wand, and blame it all on the Sentinel, especially their biased columnist. In other words, shoot the messenger.

What does Lauren Ritchie know anyway? Well I’ll tell you what she knows – which I now know too, as I’ve now read the IRS report (caveat – the parts of the report that put me to sleep were only skimmed). There is an unanswered IRS report that concludes that Mr. Morse booked a $53 Million gain on sales in his corporation’s 2003 tax return, which was the direct result of selling property to the Villages Community Development District, who in turn issued tax exempt bonds. And the IRS now says that the gain did not meet the legal requirements for a tax exempt bond issue, which casts doubt on all of the Community Development District’s previous tax exempt bond issues. You should know all that too, but you probably wouldn’t have known if the biased Sentinel columnist hadn’t brought it up. Admittedly, the IRS can be wrong, and have been proven wrong many times in the past; that’s why there is a federal tax court. I sincerely hope they are wrong in this case too, but I am impressed with the detail and logic in the IRS Report, and will be equally interested in reading the Community Development District’s response, which according to the IRS Report, would have been due on February 22.

“Sentinel” - a person employed to keep watch for some anticipated event.

Collie:

You are the voice of objectivity! If only others would come close to your logic instead of sinking to name-calling and demonizing those who search for answers instead of smoke and mirrors! We ALL need to be concerned about these financial issues.