[Muncle]

Originally Posted by SteveZ

What I don't understand is all the concern about how much profit the developer has made with TV.


It's a beautiful day in The Villages......

Steve, this is a common malady around here. I've been referring to it as Financial ***** Envy. It seems to fit.


oh, whatsyourname with your lists of my recent transgressions, I'll get back to you later on that. I don't know who you are or who you think you are, but you might want to chill on telling people to stay out of discussions. The administrators can delete my posts or even bar me from TOTV. You, sir or madam, can do neither of these things. In fact, about all you can do is





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[chacam]

Wow, 105 posts on this topic. I'll bet Ms Ritchie is very amused as I am at some of the replies and at what her writing has started.

[junglejim]

Let's face it; we are in Florida one of the epicenters of the real estate bubble burst. I heard yesterday that Florida now leads the nation in foreclosures. That being said looks like so far the values here in the Villages have only dropped around 10%. Every recent home purchaser in the state paid more than their home was worth. Look at Orlando. Their shining place to be - Baldwin Park quote from David Welch (in the Orlando Sentinel) "We contracted [to build] at $650,000, before the real blow-up in prices, and I think it peaked at about $1.1million. It did get crazy," Welch said. As a sign of the times, Welch is negotiating the "short sale" of his home in Baldwin Park that's expected to go for about $270,000. We went to Orlando and stayed at another of their hot spots on Lake Eola Park. This park is a cesspool of winos, drug addicts and all sorts of homeless bums. You won't see that in the Villages. Wonder if the Orlando taxpayers are happy with that use of their tax dollars? I do hope the Family stays with us. They do have the vision. How many of you have seen community groups or even civic groups able to reach an agreement without a lot of finger pointing and ill feelings. I am not sure we should be in charge of what goes on in our districts. I think most of us would rather not be involved in the politics and who wants that responsibility at this stage in life?

[Cassie325]

Originally Posted by RCT

Couldn't agree with you more.

ME TOO!!!!





P.S.

STEVE and MUNCLE.....

[djl8412]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Hi djl,

To answer you categorically;

Any villager that felt remotely distressed when Ritchie declared that they should worry more about their "future property values and financial liability."..... would be hurt. She has invoked herself as the trier of facts, the jury and the judge before a complaint has even been filed. Border line buyers and by extension future sellers who alter their home ownership decisions based on Ritchie's non-professional biased opinions potentially hurt themselves and others in an already fragile market.

The IRS should do what they are paid to do. This issue has been discussed publicly for a few years. It is interesting to note that the IRS has never filed a complaint. A sharp Florida attorney I know said that the uniqueness of the way the Villages are legally organized, something like Disney World, has left many unanswered questions, limited precedent and a lot of conflicting opinions.

The developer has not been convicted, not even charged with any impropriety so to categorize him by inference with those with "power and money" that commit "misdeeds" is not fair. I check for the American flag at public buildings everyday and the last time I checked "Old Glory" was still flying and that means we still have a presumption of innocence in America. This seems to be an elusive principle for Ms. Ritchie. I prefer to reserve judgement until all the facts are disclosed and the case is decided by a court that does more then speculate on misdeeds as Ms. Ritchie and her fans are so adept at. I should add that I have posted criticisms of the developer at times so I am not in the tank with him.

In straightforward King's English, I said, "I do respect the concerns of my fellow Villagers who wish to be more engaged." If you wish to engage at a more intense level... go for it. I prefer to give the developers their day in court and continue to view the glass as half full. Speaking of which, there's a cool one in the dining room with my name on it right now.

Thanks for taking the time to read the post and have a nice evening.

Hi, again:
At the risk of inflaming you more, I just wanted to point out a couple of things you stated above:

I inquired on what Villagers have been hurt, not who [I]could be hurt.

You vision the American flag flying in front of public buildings which means the presumption of innocene until proven guilty. On the paragraph just before that statement you seem a bit contradictory with statements of "She (Ms. Ritchie) has invoked herself as the trier of facts, the jury and the judge
before a complaint has even been filed" and accuse Ms. Ritchie of being unprofessional and biased. Also, I did not allege Mr. Morse of misdeeds but summarized those in power and money who may "potentially" commit misdeeds. Sounds like jury and judgement calls there. And, just to be safe, I don't recall any of the posters on this topic accusing anyone of being in the tank with the devoloper.

On the issue of the IRS filing a complaint: They first must search facts and compare them to existing statutes to determine if violations have occurred. I don't know what you mean by them "filing a complaint" unless you relate that to filing an affidavit to federal court alleging illegal conduct. In that case, you are correct and the court process will go on, as it is supposed to.

Hope you made the cool half full glass an empty one. Now I've got a pillow that's full of goose down with my name on it. I think the next thing I'll focus on is my cruise with Princess Lines March 7-14.

TTFN

[JimJoe]

I am interested in learning as much as possible about this issue. I want to hear all accurate relevant information on the topic from the parties involved. I think everyone would like that. Villagers love their homeland. Please, no more name calling among ourselves or about the persons involved. Thank you.

[UpNorth]

The IRS is looking for money (what else is new?). I don't think anyone thinks that the developer will reach into his deep pockets to come up with the cash. After all, when a sink hole appeared on the Lopez golf course years ago, who did he expect to pay? If it wasn't for the empty land yet-to-be-developed for more big bucks, it wouldn't surprise me to see him throw the residents under the bus and disappear. Don't kid yourself... it's been done before.

[Russ_Boston]

UpNorth - Highly, highly unlikely. Even after build out there is still tremendous business potential. After all you are talking about a town with 100,000 people. The developer will still own almost all the internal retail space with their associated leases. There will also be great potential in rental income and management. Plus much, much more. Perhaps they may move on to other opportunities but someone will want take over with all that money out there to be made.

You say it has happened before but maybe you are referring to retirement communities who get the people to buy the homes prior to the infrastructure (pools, centers etc.) being built and then abandon the homeowners. TV is just the opposite. They build the complete infrastructure and then build and sell the homes. I don't see TV's fate as bleak.

Originally Posted by iaudit

Bryan wrote:

"The tax exempt status of all the (unearned?) profit for the Developer is what the IRS case is all about, but only a prepherial issue to most residents."

I do not believe this is correct. It was the central district that issued the tax exempt bonds, not the developer. He claimed a gain on his income tax return and paid taxes on that gain. The central district is on the hook if the tax exempt status is changed for the bonds. They may have to call the bonds and settle with the bondholders because of the lower interest rates the bondholders received and the taxes that they will have to pay. They will then have to issue new bonds at taxable rates, which are normally higher, however, during this economic climate that may not be the case.

Any financial penalties or expenses related to this issue will have to be paid by the central district. As I understand it, the central district has two ways to raise funds: payments received for amenity fees (which can only be raised based on CPI) and levying property taxes (which they have not done before but have the authority to do).

As some have mentioned, this may take awhile to play out but in the end, any financial penalties will probably be paid by the village residents in one form or another.

Exactly Right.

[Bogie Shooter]

The POA Bulletin hit my driveway today. Usually I would be dissing many of the things written on its pages....I do have a couple of objections...but for another day.
They do comment about the IRS bond issue. To quote a portion...."Again, it is just too early to give a definitive answer, much less even speculate on the outcome. We feel that if there is any potential adverse effect for us, the developer will exercise the same good judgment and concern for the residents that he exhibited in the lawsuit settlement in early 2008 and do what he can to protect this community and its residents. We are hopeful that, if the worst case scenario occurs, the develper will do the right thing for the residents. And we encourage residents to support the efforts of the developer and the VCCCD to resolve any issues." (note: my underlining)
A new position of the POA, no wild speculation or finger pointing and asking residents to support the developer.
A welcome change at least on this issue from the POA!

[squeek]

Has anyone thought about this (or am I late to the party?).

The developer sells bonds to finance infrastructure. Assume the actual cost of the infrastructure is several million dollars less than the bond issue total (which seems to be the case in the recent Sentinel article).

The obligation to repay the bond holders is transferred to the property owners through the amenity fee assessment.

What happens with the excess millions not used? Maybe this is part of the IRS's concern as well as the tax-exempt status. In any event, I am interested in learning where the flow of excess funds finally end.

Village Homeowner

[collie1228]

Village Homeowner, I've read the IRS report and there is no mention of the "excess" as a tax issue. The excess, as reported earlier, seems to have been properly reported on the Developer's (Mr. Morse's) corporate taxes. The issue, as I understand the report, is the bond issuer's authority to issue the bonds under a tax exempt status. If it is found that the development district improperly issued the bonds as tax exempt, there will be a new tax liability. Who pays that new liability? I have a feeling it will be the residents of the development district. I suppose the Developer could ste in and and do the right thing, but who really believes that a businessman would ever give up a legal gain of many millions, unless he was forced to do it. But I could be wrong. If this was decided against the development district in the end, I'm pretty sure that our Uncle Sam is going to get his share, and he probably doesn't care much who he gets it from.

[Autoshow]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

Lauren, Steve, V7, anyone help please:

Is this the bond that we know about when we purchase the home or is this something that is yet to come down the pike?

If it is the former then what the heck is Lauren talking about. Every new homeowner knows about the bond that can be paid off over the 30 years or just paid up front like any other home debt.

What am I missing?

Thanks for the help.

This has everything to do with the devloper,he issued tax free bonds and the
IRS said he cannot do that,now the IRS wants the tax on that money and it is very possible it could be passed on to every home owner.

i know we all talk about about the bonds ,but this is something more serious.
So anybody with any comments about it should read the article in the Orlando Sun,there is also a small article in the POA,worth reading,and as usual there is nothing about it in The Daily Sun.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by autoshow

So anybody with any comments about it should read the article in the Orlando Sun,..........

What is the Orlando Sun?

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by Lauren Ritchie

The notion that columnists who write for the Sentinel or any other newspaper do it to sell papers is a tired old claim without credibility that has long since lost any basis in reality.

Show me ANY business that does not spend in the hopes of earning back more than what is spent. If this columnist really believes her comment in this quote, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell her....


(And this has nothing to do with the content of her columns and this thread.)