[SALYBOW]

Originally Posted by redwitch

A landscaper stopped by a house on Fenwick to see how the yard was doing. He was in his personal vehicle. He got out of the car and pulled a few weeds and left. As he was leaving via the Sanibel gate, the police came roaring in. The police turned around and pulled him over. They had gotten a call that two black men had been checking out the house.

To say the landscaper is upset is putting it mildly. No one asked him what he was doing at the house although he felt it was pretty obvious since he had not been near the house itself.

So, were people being good neighbors in calling the police? Would they have called the police had this been two white men in the yard? What would you have done?

I agree Dee.

[Wandatime]

Originally Posted by blueash

And if you were black and were very aware of the real issues of driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black, you also would be very aware that even without any conscious discriminatory intent our culture and the person who called the cop had just a bit of extra alertness and extra suspicion when it was a black person who was picking some weeds. If you don't understand that view of how it happens too often and impacts the black experience in America you are not listening. It has been Oprah and Condoleezza not just those you don't know like this landscaper. No one is color blind in our society, not those on the left either. And for anyone to state that this man's color did not play a role in the aroused suspicion of the neighbor is ignoring reality.

I agree that we all unconsciously discriminate, and what more, on several levels, not just race. Examples:

I took an on-line test that just flashed pictures and words, and by the length of time it took to choose one or the other, the test was able to ascertain I was mildly discriminatory towards smokers (and I was a smoker until four years ago). Before taking that test I would have told you flat out that I had absolutely nothing against smokers. A test of my unconscious beliefs showed otherwise.

There was a post a few days ago about tattoos and our prejudgements of those that have them. Some people see nothing wrong with tattoos at all. Others see some tattoos and think they are okay, but skulls and blood tattoos freak them out. I know two men that will not date any woman they know has a tattoo.

When we look at a person our subconscious takes all of our experiences and impressions and beliefs and makes an instantaneous judgement. That is human nature, and it is not all bad; it saves us from walking into dangerous situations (or perceived dangerous situations). It also helps us to connect with someone we think may be a friend or even love interest.

Do we make mistakes? Of course. Do some people have some very skewed impressions and beliefs that render their judgements poor? Sure. Are some people so accepting and naive that they put themselves in harms' way? Yep.

It is what it is. We can try to overcome our own personal prejudgements, but as that test pointed out to me, it is harder than we think.

[rubicon]

Prejudice is either real, invented, or mis-applied unintentionally or intentionally for some personal gain.

Many people of color are CEO's of major corporation sit on many board are elected president,etc etc, etc.

Yet we continue with this ridiculous black issue. European nationals get sterotyped all the time and just laugh it off and some actually engage in playing sterotypes to get a laugh.

Why not the black experience. why is there a black history month . Is there an english history month, ?

My point is that because of race baiters, etc we are conditioned to react to situations like this one . I said in an earlier post that the person who reported this guy also described the make of the car its age color etc. Did that make him/her a Honda hater?

Plain and simple I am sick of this nonsense and the sooner people stop talking about race the sooner we will leave it behind us. but there are people in our society who have personal and monetary reasons to keep it alive

[Bonny]

If I were ever to call the police, I "would" say there are 2 white guys "OR" I would say there are 2 black guys. I know someone will ask for a description and that's all I'm doing is giving a description.

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Bonny

If I were ever to call the police, I "would" say there are 2 white guys "OR" I would say there are 2 black guys. I know someone will ask for a description and that's all I'm doing is giving a description.

Well you cant say black without discriminating the difference, can you? We are a nation of linguistically snarled idiots...ok, i am having a very black and white day....but...that was not about race, really, oh Gosh, now what have I said?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

And if you were black and were very aware of the real issues of driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black, you also would be very aware that even without any conscious discriminatory intent our culture and the person who called the cop had just a bit of extra alertness and extra suspicion when it was a black person who was picking some weeds. If you don't understand that view of how it happens too often and impacts the black experience in America you are not listening. It has been Oprah and Condoleezza not just those you don't know like this landscaper. No one is color blind in our society, not those on the left either. And for anyone to state that this man's color did not play a role in the aroused suspicion of the neighbor is ignoring reality.

Why people make race an issue when it is not are doing a disservice to all of us.

Making a generalization about danger is one of the reasons that our species survived. It is innate and may be socially wrong to summarize. But it is effective.

If I saw a guy that looked like he was out of place here among mostly old, white people I would wonder what he is doing. We have neighbors of all colors and they look pretty much alike. Most of us have grandchildren and they look pretty much alike, even the landscapers look pretty much alike.

When you want to find wrong and hate you look for it everywhere and in so condemn innocent people. Some who live here are racists and bigots and some are not.

People who are obsessed with race keep saying the same things over and over. FROM BOTH SIDES.

[Bonny]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Well you cant say black without discriminating the difference, can you? We are a nation of linguistically snarled idiots...ok, i am having a very black and white day....but...that was not about race, really, oh Gosh, now what have I said?

[tomwed]

Here is Jon Stewert talking about what it's like to be black in New York City where there is so much diversity and a very liberal point of view..

Click here

go to 7 minutes and 40 seconds

[The Mountaineer]

The standard rule is to have someone investigate anyone who doesn't look as if they belong in the neighborhood. Since 0.5% of the people in The Villages, according to the 2000 census, are African-American, the chances are much slimmer that someone pulling a few weeds belongs there. That COULD be a subterfuge for casing the property. I posted in another thread how $1 billion a year in copper is stolen from vacant or unoccupied homes. So vigilance is warranted, regardless of color. If someone with worn, torn, dirty clothing dragging a shopping cart with his belongings behind him showed up and started pulling a few weeds, I think a call to authorities is warranted. We all need to be our neighbors' eyes and ears these days.

[VT2TV]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I guess the point of this entire thread is ... what is the definition of suspicious behavior?.
To some people, it might be an old car driving slowly down a street
To others, it might be two young guys we don't recognize carrying TVs and jewellery boxes out of a house.
The cops say they don't mind being called, so perhaps we shouldn't worry if we bombard them with calls.

Last year in our Village, one of the neighbors was concerned when he spotted people he didn't know parking cars and walking through a couple of back yards.
It made him very nervous. He said he called the police a couple of times but they never came.

That's my sole experience.

All we are doing is beating a dead horse here, and are getting nowhere. I think we are all educated enough here to know what constitutes a suspicous behavior in general, and obviously we all have our own specific examples. If you don't want the police called when strangers are in your house or yard , tell your neighbors not to bother calling the police at all, or call the the non emergency police dispatch number and tell them to mark your house as a do not respond if anyone call the police. The police do NOT have the time to listen to 30 mins of ..."well, I think they were black, or maybe white..., BUT I am not prejudiced, so maybe I shouldn't give you a color, and well, they might just be there to pull some weeds, and they don't have any markings on their truck, but maybe the sign fell off....." If there were an actual emergency, your neighbors might just be dead by then. Of course, that's sarcastic, and this is not directed at you Barefoot, but if you want the police there for you, call them or tell your neighbors to call. If you don't then, don't bother them.

Originally Posted by blueash

And if you were black and were very aware of the real issues of driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black, you also would be very aware that even without any conscious discriminatory intent our culture and the person who called the cop had just a bit of extra alertness and extra suspicion when it was a black person who was picking some weeds. If you don't understand that view of how it happens too often and impacts the black experience in America you are not listening. It has been Oprah and Condoleezza not just those you don't know like this landscaper. No one is color blind in our society, not those on the left either. And for anyone to state that this man's color did not play a role in the aroused suspicion of the neighbor is ignoring reality.

I doubt you will believe me, but I was not raised to be prejudiced. My parents both grew up in a coal mine town along with black people, and they all lived there together back in the 20's +. I have no idea what black people have gone through in their lives, but I do know that I have heard just as many black people who are prejudiced as white people, and just about every other ethnic groups have people who are prejudiced. But it will never , ever get any better until people stop blaming everything on race. The people who were there in the worst of the race problems are dead and gone, and people are still crying race or religion. We have a black President now, do you think he was elected by just the black people???

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by VT2TV

I think we are all educated enough here to know what constitutes a suspicous behavior in general, and obviously we all have our own specific examples.

I don't think being well educated has anything al all to do with finding behavior suspicious.
Some people are very fearful for their lives and security and being robbed of their possessions.
They may find most things suspicious.
Others don't have many possessions they care about and may even choose to leave their doors open.
And they may not see someone pulling weeds next door as suspicious behavior at all.
It takes all kinds to make up a city. There are no rights or wrongs. And we won't resolve it here. Peace be with you. Ciao.

[Topspinmo]

Answer to the original question is YES and it's only going to get worst.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by VT2TV

I doubt you will believe me, but I was not raised to be prejudiced. My parents both grew up in a coal mine town along with black people, and they all lived there together back in the 20's +. I have no idea what black people have gone through in their lives, but I do know that I have heard just as many black people who are prejudiced as white people, and just about every other ethnic groups have people who are prejudiced. But it will never , ever get any better until people stop blaming everything on race. The people who were there in the worst of the race problems are dead and gone, and people are still crying race or religion. We have a black President now, do you think he was elected by just the black people???

That is a useful post and shows insight. I doubt many are raised to be prejudiced. It is a subtle unintentional word here or raised eyebrow or hold the child's hand a little tighter moment that teaches. Example: When you were a child it is extremely unlikely (not impossible) that you ever heard of Islam. Your parents, your school, your churches had no comment or instruction. The first cultural awakening might have been when Cassius Clay became Ali and Alcindor became Abdul Jabbar. Then Malcolm X and the Black Muslim movement reached our nightly news. Then the Munich Olympics and Black September, Lebanon and the barracks bombing during the Reagan years and finally 9-11.
Never did any mainstream media or your parents tell you to be afraid of people who "look" Islamic. But I would challenge anyone to honestly say they don't have just a moment of discomfort when boarding a plane if they notice others dressed in traditional Islamic clothing. Some can turn that momentary anxiety off quickly, others spend the entire flight watching for shoe bombs. We are pre judging based on cultural hints and clues we have assimilated. It doesn't make us evil or even wrong. It makes us victims of our background. And while I will grant you being vigilant is great and should someone alert a flight attendant to a shoe bomber before he could set off the device I and everyone would be grateful for the vigilance.
But if every time a hijab wearing person reaches to tie a shoe they are assaulted by sky marshals they may resent the pre judging of the person who reported them and categorize it as Islamophobia. The anxious passenger says "I am not Islamophobic, I am just reporting like the authorities tell me I should. She should just understand why her behavior was suspicious and cooperate with the police. Why I think I'd have spoken up if I'd seen any passenger acting that way." The passenger can perhaps intellectually understand that comment but their heart and gut says, "This is because of my clothing and the bigotry of "flying while Muslim".
My point in this long post is to help people understand that in the situation in the original post, the person who called the police may not be consciously acting on race, but the landscaper will certainly see it that way. And to those who say stop crying racism because there is less racism now than in the '20s I agree. But in the '20s there were those who said those Negroes should just stay in their place because it is so much better now than in 1860 when they were slaves. We have a long way to go.

[cologal]

Originally Posted by redwitch

A landscaper stopped by a house on Fenwick to see how the yard was doing. He was in his personal vehicle. He got out of the car and pulled a few weeds and left. As he was leaving via the Sanibel gate, the police came roaring in. The police turned around and pulled him over. They had gotten a call that two black men had been checking out the house.

To say the landscaper is upset is putting it mildly. No one asked him what he was doing at the house although he felt it was pretty obvious since he had not been near the house itself.

So, were people being good neighbors in calling the police? Would they have called the police had this been two white men in the yard? What would you have done?

This is a new one to add to the list.... "Pulling weeds while black"

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by cologal

This is a new one to add to the list.... "Pulling weeds while black"

cologal. PLEASE read this entire thread.