[dave from deland]

I will not go to places with unrestricted crowds and will follow CDC guidelines at stores, etc.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Then don't complain when someone does not agree with your view and decides not to wear a mask. You cannot make demands on other people, just because you believe all the hype and wish to panic when you see someone not wearing a mask. It is your choice to jump into the water. Most likely there won't be a 'gator in the water, but there could be. It is only your fault if you wish to enter the "danger" zone.

Hype? It is not hype when I can see with my own eyes the havoc this virus has caused in many large cities in our country. To see our health care workers, doctors and first responders pleading with people to follow guidelines that you resist and refuse to do, makes my heart hurt. There is no getting through to you or any of the people who think like you do.

[Dorebea]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

No religion would say for people to SURRENDER to a PLAGUE and become a denier of Science!

Please see the CDC case study in my post #246

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Advogado

There simply is no question that masks save lives. Thus, they are recommended by virtually every expert in the field.

There are several people on this board who question whether masks save lives. If *virtually* every expert in the field recommends them then that implies there are *some* experts in the field that don't. The states with strict mask mandates today are seeing an increase in cases too. Yes, they must be doing SOMETHING wrong, but maybe, just maybe, that SOMETHING is relying too much on the mask.

Personally, I DO believe masks can make a difference and I am happy to see businesses require them. I DON'T believe they are a complete solution or the only thing needed for a solution.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

...
Failure to do this will cause Florida to become like South Dakota which today has a 60% positive CV rate, meaning that every 2 out of 3 persons is carrying the virus.

Small correction: 60% is 3 out of 5, not 2 out of 3. And, more importantly, 60% represents the rate of *tests* that are coming back positive,. 3 out of 5 people tested have positive tests but since not all people are being tested it is not accurate to say that 3 out of 5 persons in South Dakota are carrying the virus.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Wisconsin is lucky to get it that high. We need 90%-100% positivity and this will be over. The weak will die and 99% will survive. What - evolution and survival of the fittest is no longer the religion you profess?

Be careful what you want to be professed. I will go ALL Professor on you and say.........all religions are relics from past near tribal cultures, that were designed to keep the masses in line. Today they are quaint, but still dangerous devices to drive wedges between groups and sub-cultures. They are by nature CONSERVATIVE because they cling to the status quo primarily to benefit the upper class and hypnotize the lower classes.

To prove that - just remember that the cause of most wars throughout History has been RELIGION. It is ironic that religiosity preaches peace and harmony while, in fact, creating violence. End of my professing, no more forever!

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Byte1

WHY?
Perhaps I wish to see everyone wear only blue shirts and pants. Does my demand matter any less or more than yours?

Those are not my demands. Those are guidelines from the CDC that I wish people would abide by. Following the guidelines to mitigate a virus and prevent our health care system from becoming over whelmed is not that same as your demand for everyone to wear only blue shirts and pants.

Just wondering.....don't you think sporting events should have stadiums filled with fans? If you do, that is never going to happen if folks refuse to follow guidelines to slow the spread of the virus.

I make no demands. It is more of a pleading than a demanding. Hope folks realize that I just want to see this country come through this pandemic without losing hundreds of thousands more lives to Covid.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I think that Desantis is one of the best governors in this entire country. When this crisis first began, he had the foresight to protect our most vulnerable senior citizens by implementing strict visitation guidelines in assisted living and nursing home communities.

Some of the most abysmal statistics in that regard come from the states like Michigan, NY and NJ who put COVID-19 patients in with medically fragile elderly people while shutting out visits from their (very) concerned family members. The lack of common sense and decency in those so called leaders is beyond appalling and they are not the ones to look to for standards.

Statistics are simply not bearing out this idea that shut downs, mask mandates, curfews or other draconian rules are keeping citizens any safer.

There are YouTube videos of scientific tests that use special light to show droplets emitted when people breathe. Then they show different situations and you can see how far the droplets travel - like with masks and when shouting and when sneezing. It is PROOF THAT MASKS WORK!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Then don't complain when someone does not agree with your view and decides not to wear a mask. You cannot make demands on other people, just because you believe all the hype and wish to panic when you see someone not wearing a mask. It is your choice to jump into the water. Most likely there won't be a 'gator in the water, but there could be. It is only your fault if you wish to enter the "danger" zone.

I don't understand that point about NOT having demands on an individual. We all have legal demands on us. It is DEMANDED that we do NOT exceed speed limits, that we do NOT REMOVE emission equipment from vehicles, that go to school after a certain age, that we don't do violence to other people and property. It is DEMANDED by society that we do NOT drive while intoxicated or under other influences. Our parents DEMANDED that we brush our teeth.

Society is not without DEMANDS, it is an integral part of group living.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

There are several people on this board who question whether masks save lives. If *virtually* every expert in the field recommends them then that implies there are *some* experts in the field that don't. The states with strict mask mandates today are seeing an increase in cases too. Yes, they must be doing SOMETHING wrong, but maybe, just maybe, that SOMETHING is relying too much on the mask.

Personally, I DO believe masks can make a difference and I am happy to see businesses require them. I DON'T believe they are a complete solution or the only thing needed for a solution.

I used the adverb "virtually" because I am sure that some purported "expert" does not agree that masks work. Neither I nor anybody else claims masks are a "complete" solution. They are clearly a necessary part of getting the virus under control, which is necessary to save both lives and our economy. We need immediate county action on a mask mandate.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by dave from deland

I will not go to places with unrestricted crowds and will follow CDC guidelines at stores, etc.

This is reasonable. When you mitigate your own risks, what others do is less important.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Side effects that were reported at the beginning were blood clots. Who knows whether that was from the virus or from the treatment.

Lets not over inflate the virus. It is what it is, and it is not the end of civilization. It may cause the end of some of our liberties though, if folks don't settle down and quit demanding laws enacted to limit our freedom and liberty.
The way I figure it (my opinion) we have a choice. We can do everything voluntarily to protect ourselves and suffer through an economic drought, or we can allow a few people in D.C. the power to limit and control our destiny. America's freedom and liberty is a model for the rest of the world. We give other countries hope. Hope that some day their country can be as great as ours.
The more power we give a few politicians over us, the more they move us into slavery. Although, there are some countries out there that need or enjoy having a gov nanny.

Agreed that the US was ONCE a model for freedom and liberty for other countries to follow. That was about pre-1970. Today the world LAUGHS at us as we teeter on the brink of losing our precious freedoms. We are low on the world list for "quality of life". We have the HIGHEST wealth disparity of any western country. We have a recent tax cut that was NOT needed and further hurts the wealth disparity. We are fighting about little things like mask-wearing, when we need a united front against a dangerous Plague. Nobody, but me, mentions Global Warming because we created so many other problems for OURSELVES. Racism as a problem should have been fixed 50 years ago. WE had some elements of the GREATEST country back pre-1970 (at least whites did) but we evolved from that point rather sideways - not making substantial progress forward from there. So, here we are - some like yourself feel that the US is wonderful. I feel like we had our chance and BLEW it! And the future is NOT so bright that we have to wear shades - we have to wear HazMat suits!!!!!

[mistervin]

You are free to go or not go to the Square, live in The Villages, Florida or not.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

O.k. so you don't want people to impose restrictions on you that you don't agree with but you feel it's o.k. to impose your restrictions on others that they don't agree with?

I think that people have been playing along with the masks for the most part and there will be some major push back if there are mask mandates put in place.

Those are not "my" restrictions. They are the guidelines put forth by the experts in the field of epidemiology. Let's not forget that the CDC is in existence to maintain our public health and safety.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

You're using unreasonable goalposts to justify an opinion that has no justification.

Yes people who have EXTREME situations, need to take EXTREME measures. But MOST people don't have extreme situations. Most people - especially here at the Villages, have moderate risks. Higher risks simply by virtue of the fact that they're OLD, and lower risks by virtue of the fact that this is an active community and most of these old people don't hang out on rocking chairs knitting until their arthritis and dementia puts them in a home for the aged. I'd venture to guess that the overall fitness level of our community is the #1 reason we're not all sick - and if it weren't for that, there would be thousands more dead old people in Sumter County than the comparable low quantity there are now.

You're also using "safe from" as your benchmark. That is an unreasonable benchmark. The appropriate and correct benchmark with regards to mask wearing, social distancing, and hand sanitizing is "LESS UNSAFE."

There is a HUGE difference between "100% safe" and "less unsafe." There is ALWAYS a risk. The risk is reduced when we (get ready for it)...


(wait for it)...


(drumroll)...


Wash your hands. Social distance. Wear a mask.

Risk reduction. Not safe. Less unsafe. Risk reduction. Not safe. Less unsafe.

Not sure how many posts have to have these phrases in them, before people who insist that the opposite of their opinion is "masks will prevent" anything at all, realize that it is not the opposite of their opinion.

Their opinion is "screw masks, they don't work, I don't like them, I don't wanna, my freedom to go where I want and if you don't like it stay home."

OUR opinion is: "Masks REDUCE THE RISKS, we don't like them, we don't wanna, but we are civilized, so if you don't like it, YOU stay home."

OBB....you have such a way with words!