Why do we as Sumter County taxpayers put up with this?

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  #241  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:51 PM
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dewilson58 dewilson58 is offline
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
The original poster gave a pretty good summary of it, which is in accordance with my understanding of the contract. Please re-read the original post.

You seem to always be asking others to do your research for you. You want details about the contract, go to the Sumter County website and start digging. Asking questions, and contributing no facts, allows you to divert attention from the issues raised by the original poster.

The central point is that the Developer's County Commissioners have offloaded what the Orlando Sentinel reported to be $186 million of road costs, caused by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villagers, on to the taxpayers of Sumter County. The Developer's County Commissioners did this instead of increasing the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. The details of the contract that you refer to are secondary. How about sticking to the central point instead of nitpicking?



No, I wish you would do your research and be educated with the facts.


You will learn, the reporting by OS is headline grabbing......may not be the entire story. There is a difference between existing county road work dollars and creating county roads for a developer. The county is responsible for improvements and upgrades to their existing roads.


I have the details of the Sumter County budget. Again.....educate yourself. The highlights are: The 2019/2020 budget increased from ~$200mil to ~$250mil. $14mil went to the General Fund for Fire/Policy/Admin/etc. as a result of the County's expansion.



The other big increase was in the Special Projects Fund. Special Project details start on page 19 of the approved budget. A lot of dollars are going to resurfacing projects and traffic management systems.


As far as the contract..................I've read it. Do yourself a favor and don't rely on random posters on the internet.


I have the facts. Learn the fact..............they will set you free!!



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  #242  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:55 PM
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Enough please. Those that are driving a nail with a sledge hammer seem to think that the rest of us need 'help' to understand. Disagreement does not mean lack of understanding.
  #243  
Old 02-16-2020, 03:55 PM
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Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilbcox View Post
You may not know but here are a few facts that will disgust you!

1. Sumter County Commissioners signed a 30 year contract in July 2018 with The Villages rich developers whereas we taxpayers will pay for roads and drainage infrastructure within land owned by the developers. The Villages gets to select the construction company, Rainey Construction, to design and build roads and drainage with ZERO competitor bids. The developers submit invoices for this design & construction cost plus 3% management fees to Sumter County. The owner of Rainey and the Morse Family are business partners in a large hunting lodge in Montana!

2. The Sumter County Commissioners also voted for a 25% tax increase so that us the taxpayers will eat the cost for The Villages developers!

3. In return of this 30 year contract The Villagers developers agree to build a 4th town center in Sumter County...no target date was set for this new town center so they have up to 30 years to build it.

4. The Sumter County Commissioners also agreed to pay for infrastructure roads and drainage for a new Developers business park to be located on I-75...this is your taxpayers money to assist the ultra rich developers!

5. Did you know that the Morse Family is the second richest family in Florida. The owner of Carnival Corporation is the richest.

6. The only way to stop this madness is to vote the current Sumter County Commissioners out in November who do not have your interest in mind!
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To get back to the beginning of this discussion, the argument around who should be paying for various infrastructure costs associated with development has been an on-going battle for as long as I can remember (I first moved to FL back in 1985) and I'm sure was going on way before that.

From my perspective, there are basically 3 choices; the developer (who will try and transfer this cost back to the new buyers), the new buyers, and the existing land owners/residents. The latter residents often resent the the fact that their taxes are inevitably increasing. Hence this whole thread.

Now, on the plus side, existing landowners/residents will find themselves enjoying enhanced economic prospects and will often "cash-out" to a windfall property value increases due to the development. (We are currently seeing that in the southern area as Warm Springs begins to be developed beyond the borders of the Villages of Southern Oaks and old-time property owners are able to sell at a profit.) I saw this play out in Palm Beach County 30 years ago and it continues down there even to this day.

I personally love what is going on down in my area (I'll refer to it generally as the VOSO) and with the CDD structure, I certainly feel like I am paying for my share of the infrastructure. This discussion is more about the non-villages infrastructure. (i.e. it is not tied directly to land that the developer is developing, but rather the areas surrounding it.) I can certainly sympathize with the sentiments of the original post and it's fair to talk about impact fees, but to think that this is a new phenomena is incorrect or to somehow tie it all back to The Morse family (The Developer) is missing the bigger context (imo).

The infrastructure costs are for things that we all are/will be benefiting from; new residents and old alike.
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  #244  
Old 02-16-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Marathon Man View Post
Enough please. Those that are driving a nail with a sledge hammer seem to think that the rest of us need 'help' to understand. Disagreement does not mean lack of understanding.



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  #245  
Old 02-16-2020, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
No, I wish you would do your research and be educated with the facts.


You will learn, the reporting by OS is headline grabbing......may not be the entire story. There is a difference between existing county road work dollars and creating county roads for a developer. The county is responsible for improvements and upgrades to their existing roads.


I have the details of the Sumter County budget. Again.....educate yourself. The highlights are: The 2019/2020 budget increased from ~$200mil to ~$250mil. $14mil went to the General Fund for Fire/Policy/Admin/etc. as a result of the County's expansion.



The other big increase was in the Special Projects Fund. Special Project details start on page 19 of the approved budget. A lot of dollars are going to resurfacing projects and traffic management systems.


As far as the contract..................I've read it. Do yourself a favor and don't rely on random posters on the internet.


I have the facts. Learn the fact..............they will set you free!!



So, what is the correct figure, in your estimation, as to how much Sumter County will spend in roads due to The Villages new sprawl? You don't seem to have a clue. Why do you think we just had the big tax increase, or are you going to allege that that is a figment of my imagination?


You seem to forget, as I explained before, all the roads will not be built in 2020. Do you have a better number than the Orlando Sentinel's $186 million? In fairness to you, the exact number is hard to come by, but I will trust the number of a professional journalist, as opposed to the vague numbers that you are throwing around.

You do notice that the County Commission did not correct the figure used in the Orlando Sentinel, which the Commission clearly would have been aware of. Had the Orlando Sentinel's number been wrong, one would think that the Commission would have corrected it.

But, despite your smoke blowing, the exact number is not the real issue. The real issue is: Why did the County Commissioners preserve the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and impose a massive tax hike on the residents to pay for Developer-caused infrastructure? Do you have an answer for that question? (Actually, the answer as to "why" is pretty obvious.)

To help you understand better what is going on, read the editorial about The Villages growth and the Developer's "puppet" County Commissioners in today's issue of the on-line newspaper. Once you understand, perhaps you will join the movement to clean up the County Commission.

Last edited by Advogado; 02-16-2020 at 09:12 PM.
  #246  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post

.



When you rely on agenda publications, your view is very negative and many facts are not known. "Professional Journalists"...........wow, that is enlightening. An editorial (as your reference point) = "a newspaper article written by or on behalf of an editor that gives an opinion on a topical issue
"


I prefer the source documents: The Budget & The Contract.



By looking at the source document, you will find the expenditure drivers behind the tax increase. I'm not a lover of any increase, but with facts (not opinions) I have an understanding.


Why?? The County is required to cover the expenditures of the approved budget. Period.


I understand the expenditures, I understand the County must balance their budget. My only question is; without the tax base currently in place to cover the expenditures, should some of the expenditures be covered with a bond issuance. Thereby matching expenditures with revenues. I have not heard the County's pro's & con's of this process.
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  #247  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dewilson58 View Post
That's my point...................You have no idea what is in the contract, yet you are up in arms about it.


Plus, you have no idea how many county tax dollars are being spent this year for "developer costs", yet you are up in arms about it.


I have a copy of the 30 year sole source no bid sweetheart contract. You can visit Sumter County website and download it also. Stop being so lazy!

The only thing the developers had to commit to was building a new town center in Sumter County within those 30 years and keep the pretty flowers same as northern areas!
  #248  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:00 PM
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When as the last time you have seen truck weight limits signs on The Villages road. Trick question! Why would Sumter county allow 60,000+ pound trucks used by the developer’s contractors on roads that are not rated for that much weight? Because they know we as taxpayers will foot the bill just like we are doing to repair the pot holes on Morse and Buena Vista.
  #249  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by neilbcox View Post
When as the last time you have seen truck weight limits signs on The Villages road. Trick question! Why would Sumter county allow 60,000+ pound trucks used by the developer’s contractors on roads that are not rated for that much weight? Because they know we as taxpayers will foot the bill just like we are doing to repair the pot holes on Morse and Buena Vista.
Interesting point. Can you tell us what the weight limitation is?
  #250  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:58 PM
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Stop being so lazy!



Not lazy mam, I have it already.


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  #251  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:29 PM
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There are none!
  #252  
Old 02-21-2020, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by neilbcox View Post
There are none!
I know this. When someone as smart as you lives here a little longer and sees the bigger picture and begins to really sift all of the details you will change your tune.

The man is just doing business and doing it well and successfully and if he didn't do it someone else would and not as well and successfully. He appears not to need to feather his own nest. He does appear to continue to want to work and in so doing keeps this place thriving and the economy humming.

Not a thing wrong I can see.
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  #253  
Old 02-21-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I know this. When someone as smart as you lives here a little longer and sees the bigger picture and begins to really sift all of the details you will change your tune.

The man is just doing business and doing it well and successfully and if he didn't do it someone else would and not as well and successfully. He appears not to need to feather his own nest. He does appear to continue to want to work and in so doing keeps this place thriving and the economy humming.

Not a thing wrong I can see.
Thanks to the Developer's puppets on the County Commission, every time you pay your county taxes, you are, in reality, writing a check to the Developer for the amount of your recent tax increase. This will go on for year after year, with the amount of that check increasing annually as your assessed value increases. It will total thousands of dollars after a few years.

You are either oblivious to this abuse, or you are okay with it. Many of us are neither.

I personally would not have minded a significant tax increase if the revenue were going to firefighters, sheriff's deputies, and teachers. It is not. It is going into the Developer's pocket in order to preserve his sweetheart impact fee. This is cronyism and corporate welfare at its worst. It is time to clean up the Sumter County Commission.

Last edited by Advogado; 02-21-2020 at 08:38 AM.
  #254  
Old 02-21-2020, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
Thanks to the Developer's puppets on the County Commission, every time you pay your county taxes, you are, in reality, writing a check to the Developer for the amount of your recent tax increase. This will go on for year after year, with the amount of that check increasing annually as your assessed value increases. It will total thousands of dollars after a few years.

You are either oblivious to this abuse, or you are okay with it. Many of us are neither.

I personally would not have minded a significant tax increase if the revenue were going to firefighters, sheriff's deputies, and teachers. It is not. It is going into the Developer's pocket in order to preserve his sweetheart impact fee. This is cronyism and corporate welfare at its worst. It is time to clean up the Sumter County Commission.
You're ignoring the third option---Many, if not most of us do not buy into your politically motivated assessment. We question your so called "facts", which seem to have a high degree of supposition and even psychic ability to read minds and discern motivations.
  #255  
Old 02-21-2020, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by golfing eagles View Post
You're ignoring the third option---Many, if not most of us do not buy into your politically motivated assessment. We question your so called "facts", which seem to have a high degree of supposition and even psychic ability to read minds and discern motivations.
Rather than attack me personally, why don't you address the facts? If I am wrong, I would be glad to be educated. Also, the only "political motivation" I have is a dislike of corporate welfare at taxpayer expense and crony capitalism, both of which exist here in an unprecedented scale.

In the meantime, instead of accusing me of being a psychic, please spend a little time educating yourself as to what has been going on in Sumter County. For example: Look at the money from the Developer and his network of suppliers flowing into Commissioner campaigns when his guys face a challenger. The REPORTED campaign contributions are a matter of public record. Then look at the difference in developer impact fees between Sumter and Collier Counties.

I am not a psychic, as you allege, but I have spent some time looking into facts about the Sumter County Commissioners.

Last edited by Advogado; 02-21-2020 at 10:17 AM.
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