[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

The question was how many are entering... Not how many may already be here and not what is the perceived cost/value ratio...

Hmm, nope - from the OP:

Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

You think incorrectly...

They are given court dates to determine their legality...

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Well, that would take a lawyer to answer and is semantics. One could argue that as long as they obey the court order while waiting for a hearing they are obeying the law, and so are not here "illegally".

But, calling them illegals makes it so much easier to hate them.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.

The court system is completely broken and can take 2 to 3 years (or longer) to hear the case. So, the court has to option to lock them up and pay incarceration fees or let them lose (hall pass) until the case can be seen.

IF politicians wanted to solve the "illegal immigrant" problem on the border the first and obvious step would be to fix the court system so the person/people seeking asylum would have their case heard the same day or within days.

I am pretty sure we will NEVER see a solution, it is way too juicy a topic for politicians to run on for or against. So, they will never solve it, simply keep it around to help stir up the base (both sides.)

And if you think this is new, try again, in the 1930s the exact same things were going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

I feel for people living on the border. Lots of crime and drugs.

[JGVillages]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

It is not going to happen because it will not make money for the people distributing it.

And personally, I don't care - I have researched it, and the total number of "illegals" at this point is estimated to be around 10 to 15 million, and their economic contribution more than outweighs their economic costs. There is no evidence they impact elections (other than abstractly, meaning people vote on border security or against it, not there is no evidence enough illegals vote to make any difference in elections.)

It’s against the LAW. Kids must wear masks in school but 4,000 non vaccinated ILLEGALS can come into the USA daily. Oh and don’t forget, it’s against the LAW.

[coralway]

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

How about you post how much $$ they pay in taxes every year? I will bet you a person who works in the fields all day pays more in taxes than most elected government officials, past and present.

They can live next door to me any day.

Get off your high horse.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by John41

I feel for people living on the border. Lots of crime and drugs.

Well, my brother lives "on the border" and is active with the immigrants (via his church) and he says it is not drugs and crime the problems are the churches and others trying to help the immigrants with food and shelter and medications don't have the resources, and the government is so screwed up they can get almost no help from it.

Sure there is some crime and drugs, but less (percentage-wise) than among legal Americans. They KNOW if they are caught they will be deported, so for the most part they try to maintain a low profile.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by John41

I feel for people living on the border. Lots of crime and drugs.

Yep, no crime in middle America, only on the border.

Read instead of following....everyone agrees there are problems, but the simple adolescent name calling and trite slogans are not going to resolve anything. IF, in fact you seek a solution.

I join in saying “get off your high horse”

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by JGVillages

It’s against the LAW. Kids must wear masks in school but 4,000 non vaccinated ILLEGALS can come into the USA daily. Oh and don’t forget, it’s against the LAW.

I disagree with you. It is NOT against the law for a person seeking asylum to enter the US. The law specially provides for that.

And if in fact so many unvaccinated immigrants are coming in - why not use up those stores of vaccines we have because so many don't want them?

And what has trying to protect school children got to do with illegal or legal immigration?

[Becca9800]

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

First there'd have to be an acknowledgment by the media that people are entering illegally. And that can't happen because "no one is illegal".

[Dana1963]

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by Dana1963

How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

Deflection.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Sophistry. Very soft at that. The very act of crossing the border without authorization is criminal.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by coralway

How about you post how much $$ they pay in taxes every year? I will bet you a person who works in the fields all day pays more in taxes than most elected government officials, past and present.

They can live next door to me any day.

Get off your high horse.

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.