[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

Sophistry. Very soft at that. The very act of crossing the border without authorization is criminal.

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

Fact. 90+ % of asylum claims are not granted. They are here illegally. also:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

U.S. Code
Notes

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(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud

Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud

Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.
(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title II, ch. 8, § 275, 66 Stat. 229; Pub. L. 99–639, § 2(d), Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3542; Pub. L. 101–649, title I, § 121(b)(3), title V, § 543(b)(2), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4994, 5059; Pub. L. 102–232, title III, § 306(c)(3), Dec. 12, 1991, 105 Stat. 1752; Pub. L. 104–208, div. C, title I, § 105(a), Sept. 30, 1996, 110 Stat. 3009–556.)

[peachpit]

Stop it, please stop it. I am so sick of this back and forth a lot of which is brought from the media to boost their ratings. We used to have meaningful dialog presenting a factual basis on both sides of an issue. Can we please all agree to meet at a forum in The Villages at a place to come together and have an intelligent discussion of the issues? We could be a model for the rest of the country.

[Ben Franklin]

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

Fact. 90+ % of asylum claims are not granted. They are here illegally. also:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

U.S. Code
Notes

prev | next
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud

Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud

Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.
(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title II, ch. 8, § 275, 66 Stat. 229; Pub. L. 99–639, § 2(d), Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3542; Pub. L. 101–649, title I, § 121(b)(3), title V, § 543(b)(2), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4994, 5059; Pub. L. 102–232, title III, § 306(c)(3), Dec. 12, 1991, 105 Stat. 1752; Pub. L. 104–208, div. C, title I, § 105(a), Sept. 30, 1996, 110 Stat. 3009–556.)

NOTHING you posted contradicted what I posted. You simply pointed out all the ways immigration can be done illegally, but do not address asylum.

Second, until the asylum case is denied they are not illegal - it IS legal to request asylum.

And you 90% denied is an interesting number. The New York Immigration Court led the country in having the widest disparity among judges serving on the same court. Depending upon the judge, denial rates ranged from 95 percent down to 3 per*cent.

And even so, until denied they are not illegal. Even if 100% were eventually denied until denied they are not illegal.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

NOTHING you posted contradicted what I posted. You simply pointed out all the ways immigration can be done illegally, but do not address asylum.

Second, until the asylum case is denied they are not illegal - it IS legal to request asylum.

And you 90% denied is an interesting number. The New York Immigration Court led the country in having the widest disparity among judges serving on the same court. Depending upon the judge, denial rates ranged from 95 percent down to 3 per*cent.

And even so, until denied they are not illegal. Even if 100% were eventually denied until denied they are not illegal.

Blah, blah, blah. Word games is all you offer.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

Blah, blah, blah. Word games is all you offer.

Seriously?

I offer the law. Blah blah, blah - very mature response. So, the law is important until YOU don't like it, then it becomes blah blah blah?

EDITED: I apologize. My reply to you was inappropriate. I would very much like to hear what you have to contribute!

[Timothyimitchell]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

It is not going to happen because it will not make money for the people distributing it.

And personally, I don't care - I have researched it, and the total number of "illegals" at this point is estimated to be around 10 to 15 million, and their economic contribution more than outweighs their economic costs. There is no evidence they impact elections (other than abstractly, meaning people vote on border security or against it, not there is no evidence enough illegals vote to make any difference in elections.)

CNN tell you that? NBC, CBS, ABC.???

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Timothyimitchell

CNN tell you that? NBC, CBS, ABC.???

No, I posted a link to a reference earlier in this thread, I can post many more if you would like.

I would be interested in why you assume I got my information from one of those. If you have read any of my posts in the past you would know that I do not watch any of those. I watch Fox, OAN, and Newsmax, and I do a LOT of research reading sources like OMB, Harvard Law review, NEJM, Federalist Papers, and on and on.

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by John41

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

Hmm, and what do we conclude from that statistic?

The previous administration made a priority of rounding up "illegal" aliens, which would be a Federal Crime. A LOT of money was spent and a lot of arrests were made. So, is that the point?

[Art cov]

Another problem is the border crossing is used by people from terrorist countries skipping across into our country. So they will do their activities here. Maybe with conditions in Haiti, our government will allow 2 million Haitians into Florida to save them from chaos in their country. If they allowed Haitians to live in our counties, we would then be able to understand how border cities in Texas feel. Remember it’s not the Sunday school classes that are coming, some are criminals,

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Art cov

Another problem is the border crossing is used by people from terrorist countries skipping across into our country. So they will do their activities here. Maybe with conditions in Haiti, our government will allow 2 million Haitians into Florida to save them from chaos in their country. If they allowed Haitians to live in our counties, we would then be able to understand how border cities in Texas feel. Remember it’s not the Sunday school classes that are coming, some are criminals,

This is in some ways true. However, the number reported by the DHS doesn't support that it is a major problem compared to other sources of terrorists.

Only a very few have come across our southern border. Of course, there could be millions of terrorist cells in the US just waiting for the moment they all get the word to blow things up. Could happen.

[Art cov]

DHS don’t even know, maybe ten percent. I’m sure they would take care of their own and have a more sophisticated way of getting their people picked up. The war on terror seems to be a joke when the border is wide open. Iranians, Syrians are crossing over also nearly 100 countries we are told were representative at the border. Without a border enforcement, we will have no country. We will wake up one day and say (what has happened )

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Art cov

DHS don’t even know, maybe ten percent. I’m sure they would take care of their own and have a more sophisticated way of getting their people picked up. The war on terror seems to be a joke when the border is wide open. Iranians, Syrians are crossing over also nearly 100 countries we are told were representative at the border. Without a border enforcement, we will have no country. We will wake up one day and say (what has happened )

Could happen