[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, you are both right.

The law specifically allows for anyone that reaches American soil to request asylum and they are supposed to be given a court date to determine if they can stay. So, the court date is to determine if they can stay legally. But, until the court date, they are technically here "legally" applying for asylum.going on, and "they" tried rounding them up and deporting them with disastrous results.

Sorry, but that's wrong. You and only apply for asylum at LEGAL points of entry...

Crossing the Rio Grande doesn't count...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Aren't you legal until proven to be illegal? Isn't it the same concept as being innocent until proven guilty? Entering the country illegally is a violation of the law. If you have a court date, then the Government is accusing you of being here illegally.

Only if you enter legally... The court date is to determine if asylum is to be granted...

Most never show up for said court date...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, that would take a lawyer to answer and is semantics. One could argue that as long as they obey the court order while waiting for a hearing they are obeying the law, and so are not here "illegally".

But, calling them illegals makes it so much easier to hate them.

No, it's because that is the correct term for those who entered the country ILLEGALLY.

Not those who LEGALLY entered thru a point of entry and requested asylum...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bucco

There is no DISCUSSION at all.....simply calling names. If we do not begin to TALK with each other, with brain engaged, and political coups aside, there will be no solution. I had some hope a few years ago about some bi partisan legislation, but they was shelved to the loud “build the wall” chants.

To the OP.....to what end is a scrolling of “illegal” immigrants ?

We desperately need immigrants or our children conomy will suffer. Let’s. Stop chanting and begin to talk about it, with a goal of at least beginning legislation.

You forgot the LEGAL part...

[Tblue]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

My criteria for illegal is someone crossing not at a legal point of entry. Have any illegals taken away my job as a crop picker……..Yep. I just want to see something like we saw for the daily tracking of COVID deaths, a daily tracking of how many enter our country illegally.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I disagree with you. It is NOT against the law for a person seeking asylum to enter the US. The law specially provides for that.

And if in fact so many unvaccinated immigrants are coming in - why not use up those stores of vaccines we have because so many don't want them?

And what has trying to protect school children got to do with illegal or legal immigration?

It's against the law if they enter ILLEGALLY (not at a point of entry)...

And as far as the "school children" goes, where do you think the children of the illegal immigrants will be attending school?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Dana1963

How many EMPLOYERS hiring illegal immigrants are actually criminally prosecuted.
Until that stops there will be an endless stream this also includes people from Europe that overstay their visas!

Agreed. That is a problem that needs to be addressed...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Here is a brief summary of the economic impacts: (It is a very complex subject with lots of opportunities to come to false conclusions.)

A review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past few decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."

While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of some state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:

"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs"

"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a SMALL percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"

"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants",

and

"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."

The IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. (Think about it - they are "illegal" and file income tax returns...)

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay about $7 BILLION per year into Social Security.(Which they will never get back in the form of SS payments)

In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 BILLION to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

So, what's the next crime? I can provide reports from law enforcement around the country that the undocumented populations in their cities and countries have LOWER crime rates than citizens. The explanation seems to be they are trying to maintain a low profile so they don't get deported.

We can keep going round and round - we have been doing it since the 1930's - or we could try to find solutions that both sides can benefit from. But, then what would the Politicians use to keep us mad at each other.

Your post conflates illegal and legal immigrants...

Legal immigrants are not part of the discussion.

And yes, Illegal immigrants file tax returns. But they do so the get ridiculously large refunds. over $4 BILLION per year...

IRS tax loophole costs billions in tax credits to undocumented workers - YouTube

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

No, it is NOT. Jeez.

Read the law, it is NOT illegal for a person seeking asylum to cross the border and turn themselves in.

Yes, I agree not ALL undocumented aliens are seeking asylum, and yes, I agree some of the ones claiming to are just trying to game the system.

But, if a person from another country places a foot on American Soil they can turn themselves in and ask for asylum - LEGALLY.

Saying it is illegal over and over does not make it so.

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

What's your criteria for illegal? Asylum seekers have a right to cross borders to seek asylum.

Have any of the illegals taken away your job as a crop picker? Maybe we can get an accurate count there, but then who would pick the crops?

According to American Natives, there are about 330 million illegals.

Asylum seekers must follow the law which states they must enter at a legal point of entry...

And you think illegals are nothing but crop pickers?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Seriously?

I offer the law. Blah blah, blah - very mature response. So, the law is important until YOU don't like it, then it becomes blah blah blah?

EDITED: I apologize. My reply to you was inappropriate. I would very much like to hear what you have to contribute!

No, you misquote the law. You continue to leave out the LEGAL point of entry requirement...

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

“You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States. extraordinary circumstances relating to your delay in filing.”

Questions and Answers: Asylum Eligibility and Applications | USCIS

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bucco

“You may apply for asylum if you are at a port of entry or in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of your immigration status and within one year of your arrival to the United States. extraordinary circumstances relating to your delay in filing.”

Questions and Answers: Asylum Eligibility and Applications | USCIS

That says nothing about entering ILLEGALLY... Once you have done that, you've committed a crime...

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Saying it's legal to cross the Rio Grande and claim asylum is legal does not make it so...

No, but the Government enforces the law, and determines who can stay and who needs to leave. So, if the Government apprehends someone, not at a designated point of entry, gives them a court date, and releases them into the country, don't they become a "de facto" legal resident? The Government is allowing these people to enter the country and live here until they go to court. It seems to me that they are legal residents at least until the court date. Also, I believe, in some cases, they are not even given a specific court date, but just allowed to enter the country.

[Freehiker]

Originally Posted by Tblue

How about all networks post the number of illegals entering the country. Maybe a little screen in the upper right hand corner of the television screen. Much like the running total of COVID deaths, the daily COVID death count and new cases of COVID. Maybe two or three numbers, maybe the number of known illegals who have entered, an estimated total number of illegals and maybe a third number of how many tested negative for COVID?

Nope. Couldn’t care less.