12 killed in Paris by extreme Islamists.

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  #106  
Old 01-08-2015, 04:46 PM
Villages PL Villages PL is offline
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Originally Posted by Beechie View Post
To accept and succumb to the horrible outcome as "expected" in light of their political satire is outrageous.
That was part of your reply to me earlier in this thread and someone posted their agreement as if I was promoting the position "to accept and succumb".

And it was all based on your assumptions. I have a plan, what's yours. If you were in charge of France, what would your next move be?
  #107  
Old 01-08-2015, 04:57 PM
Beechie Beechie is offline
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Originally Posted by Villages PL View Post
That was part of your reply to me earlier in this thread and someone posted their agreement as if I was promoting the position "to accept and succumb".

And it was all based on your assumptions. I have a plan, what's yours. If you were in charge of France, what would your next move be?
Correct. I was making a general statement from the responses of a couple of posters including yourself.
  #108  
Old 01-08-2015, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
I do not see that as an equivalent argument. There are many US sources of satire and very tasteless free speech-- TOPIX threads come to mind-- but publishing offensive cartoons is hardly the same as walking down the Tenderloin with very expensive clothing and not expecting to be mugged.


I suppose if you walked down a street in Tehran and started insulting whatever Gods they worship there, that might be closer. That person should get a Darwin Award but for drawing cartoons from a very sophisticated city like Paris....
I didn't give my example thinking it to be an equivalent argument. Just showing that for every such unwise action there may likely be an undesired outcome/reaction.

Hey, you guys forgot to accuse me of not believing in freedom of speech!

  #109  
Old 01-08-2015, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by onslowe View Post
Tip toeing around religious extremists with a 7th century value system of life and death is going to lead to Western Civilization's decline. Please someone look at how Christian North Africa and the entire Levant was essentially erased. Back when history was still taught in the schools, did anyone come across Charles Martel? What about real and intellectually honest reasons for the Crusades? And on and on. Not 'politically correct' but true - as in honest.

Should we be "sensitive" to those religionists who are over sensitive, and may, because they are not as enlightened as us, shoot and kill at perpetrators of 'insult?' Isn't that dishonest? Isn't that truly cowardly? Acting or not acting because one is coming from some sort of 'practical standpoint' reflects a moral vacuum. When in Rome, do as the Romans

The NY Times, like some others, has already started spreading the toxin about the murdered French journalist - he was always 'provoking,' implying of course he brought this upon himself. Let's all shoot him again. It's out of Lewis Carroll. Up is down. Wrong is right and the victim is the wrongdoer.

When I read some of the responses here I can only stand in awe of the great Winston Churchill and how he got through the appeasing, cowardly and morally vacant 1930's in Europe.

Thank God for all of us he existed and withstood the vile lies thrown at him.

Great thoughts above dbussone and beechie.
Now great thoughts by you as well, but still no plan of action.
  #110  
Old 01-08-2015, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
This was not a surprise. In France they have what they call NO GO zones where everything in that zone is ruled by muslims. Those not of the muslim persuasion may not enter and Muslim law prevails There are also a few of these in England and look around our country....we are creating the same kind of "zones".
I'm glad you pointed that out. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that large numbers of people in these zones are being subsidized by the state. So, why not use this as leverage? Something like what Israel does with Palestinians.

Why not give everyone in those zones a subsidy reduction until all the perpetrators are caught? It's not fair to those who are peaceful but once it's known how this will work, it may act as a deterrent to further violence.

If anyone has a better plan, let's hear it.
  #111  
Old 01-08-2015, 06:02 PM
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This is a follow up to posts about the NO GO zones. I find it chilling....

"A backdrop to the massacre in Paris on Wednesday by self-professed al Qaeda terrorists is that city officials have increasingly ceded control of heavily Muslim neighborhoods to Islamists, block by block.

France has Europes largest population of Muslims, some of whom talk openly of ruling the country one day and casting aside Western legal systems for harsh, Islam-based Shariah law.

The situation is out of control, and it is not reversible, said Soeren Kern, an analyst at the Gatestone Institute and author of annual reports on the Islamization of France.

Islam is a permanent part of France now. It is not going away, Mr. Kern said. I think the future looks very bleak. The problem is a lot of these younger-generation Muslims are not integrating into French society. Although they are French citizens, they dont really have a future in French society. They feel very alienated from France. This is why radical Islam is so attractive because it gives them a sense of meaning in their life.


French Islamist mini-states grow into problem out of government control - Washington Times

The last paragraph bothers me. Everything I have read or seen expresses the CONSCIOUS DECISION to be separate, yet that is given as a reason for them becoming terrorists.

I may be just old and stupid, but we are doing this very same thing in this country. We do not emphasize the rule of LAW. Listen, I know that I keep saying that, but all the rhetoric about how we welcome immigrants is just words. We DID welcome them under certain conditions and they knew what had to be done.

Now, it seems, welcoming immigrants is the same thing as handing over some territory, giving up our language, and since this is not restricted to Muslims, we will forget your violation of law and demonstrate in the street to protest the consequences of your violating the law.

Why must we put up with this. Why must we be called ISLAMOPHOBIAS, or RACIST when all we want is for people to respect the laws of the country in which they live.

FRANCE, it appears just ceded things over because....well, not sure why they did...easier, more politically correct because if they ever cracked down on any of this behavior, they would have been called on the carpet worldwide, and in my opinion, even by the US.

Sometimes I feel fortunate to be older. The direction we are going is not promising for our young people, and it used to be that you KNEW WHEN YOU ARE BEING ATTACKED....now....it is just over time (as many of our enemies predicted in the past) a seemingly endless parade of giving up our nation to those who just do not want to obey the law.

Sorry for the long winded post....but..

so many editorials today worrying about backlash on any Muslims in this country, yet I recall NONE, or very few editorials worrying about backlash on our police while covering people breaking the law on national TV.
  #112  
Old 01-08-2015, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Villages PL View Post
I'm glad you pointed that out. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that large numbers of people in these zones are being subsidized by the state. So, why not use this as leverage? Something like what Israel does with Palestinians.

Why not give everyone in those zones a subsidy reduction until all the perpetrators are caught? It's not fair to those who are peaceful but once it's known how this will work, it may act as a deterrent to further violence.

If anyone has a better plan, let's hear it.
I just posted and alluded to that point.

My opinion is that the world would come down on France for that action, including the US. They would be called insensitive and just plain terrible people.

It is the eternal placing of guilt
  #113  
Old 01-08-2015, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tomwed View Post

1] Is this violence or is it terrorism?
2] How do you feel about this?
3] What should be done?
4] Does this scare you?


1] I think it's violence. They must have sent death threats and warnings to stop mocking Mohammed or else. They killed the people they came to kill. It looked like a contract hit.

2] I think it is a dangerous world especially if you expect others to leave you alone when you provoke them. I wouldn't go to an Eagles/Dallas football game in Philadelphia dressed in a Cowboy jersey even though I have a right to. I wouldn't dress in Crypt colors and go into a Blood neighborhood even though I have a right to. I'm sure you can think of parallel examples.

3] I would tell newspapers satirical or otherwise that if they need protection because they are insulting terrorists then they should hire there own security and not risk the lives of policeman. I would tell employees that by working for a company like that it is risky.

4] I'm not scared at all. I have enough sense to stay out of dangerous areas or provoke a fight with someone who sees their own death as a reward to a better life.

I was in the area with my family when The Beltway terror was active. That was terror to me. The murders were random and in daylight. The area was large. The gunman did not warn anyone and was difficult to find. No one knew if there was more then 1 gunman or what the motivation was.
Yes, it's not as though they didn't know what could happen. I read that this weekly newspaper was fire-bombed back in 2011. Therefore, they can't say this act of violence came as a surprise.

So I understand what you're calling for. You're calling for prudent behavior, or else be prepared for possible consequences.
  #114  
Old 01-08-2015, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
I just posted and alluded to that point.

My opinion is that the world would come down on France for that action, including the US. They would be called insensitive and just plain terrible people.

It is the eternal placing of guilt
I suppose it would require the French government to have a backbone.
  #115  
Old 01-08-2015, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Villages PL View Post
Now great thoughts by you as well, but still no plan of action.
Plan of action for France? Greater Europe? The English heritage democracies like us? All sorts of 'special conditions' arise, I guess and the matter is very complex. I do not share the fatal pessimism of that French thinker quoted above by Rags that all is lost etc.

It is often said that Islamic terrorism is not a clear cut or simple problem because it is not allied with or identified with nations - the entities we are most used to. Yes, it is 'multi national' in many respects, but not all.

The currently 'friendly' Arab nations however are anything but, save perhaps Jordan and Morocco.

Christians are persecuted in Egypt, Iran and Iraq and Syria - untold and unreported stories of death, marginalization and church burnings. All by Islamic fanatics. Terrorists. Spreading Islam by the sword as they did in the 6th and 7th centuries, long before the Crusades.

Those friendly governments, that 'great majority' of "nice" Muslims remain deafingly silent to these atrocities, but more imprtantly they themselves do nothing. Leave the policing and retaliation to others who then can be controlled and made to pussyfoot for fear of being "Islamaphobes" or racists. Indeed, who can withstand the fury of those moral cowards and elitist misfits like the NY Times and its script hungry readers who would be "appalled" to use their phony moral high ground descriptive of choice?

It is significant to me that these murderers in Paris were not on a suicide mission, i.e., no way out, a la World Trade Center, Flight 93, the sneaker bomber Reid etc.

They are apparently living in an atmosphere where they think they can escape safely into some rat hole in some "no go" zone. Interesting that they had that belief. Arrogance. Then rob a gas station?

When pre-Colombian Europe's civilization was threatened by Islam, it reacted swiftly and decisively.

When Hitler and the Nazis 'finally' went too far, Europe had no choice but to wake up and try to salvage civilization. Interesting, that one of our greatest and wisest Generals and Presidents entitled his war time memoir "Crusade in Europe."

Maybe I'm drawing hasty lines in the sand in my search of action against Islamic terrorism. I don't think I am. The vast majority of Muslims say little or act hypocritically as nations, they still allow the hate mongering imams in their toxic little schools all over the world - poisoning generation after generation. They do nothing. Who's left to act?

You know, history's pendulum swings, and left unmoderated, it swings too far. Crush post World War I Germany and a Hitler emerges. Don't we know that there are anti-Islamic, overly nationalistic parties through out Europe fuming and growing tonight.

Nothing is done, but nature abhors a vacuum and maybe not the best thing will fill that growing vacuum.

The US can exert oh so indelicate and 'appalling' pressure on Europe to clean up its backyards and regain self respect. The US can continue to use an iron fist on terrorists and keep them locked up for thirty years or more notwithstanding the cries of the UN and its constituent US haters.

Yeah, we can do economic pressure, military pressure and plain stop being beholden to Arabs with oil - the biggest blackmailers and hypocrites around.

Any further and I fear I'll be deep in a domestic political free for all and that is not my intent to violate the rules here. Seriously.
  #116  
Old 01-08-2015, 07:35 PM
Rags123 Rags123 is offline
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Originally Posted by onslowe View Post
Plan of action for France? Greater Europe? The English heritage democracies like us? All sorts of 'special conditions' arise, I guess and the matter is very complex. I do not share the fatal pessimism of that French thinker quoted above by Rags that all is lost etc.

It is often said that Islamic terrorism is not a clear cut or simple problem because it is not allied with or identified with nations - the entities we are most used to. Yes, it is 'multi national' in many respects, but not all.

The currently 'friendly' Arab nations however are anything but, save perhaps Jordan and Morocco.

Christians are persecuted in Egypt, Iran and Iraq and Syria - untold and unreported stories of death, marginalization and church burnings. All by Islamic fanatics. Terrorists. Spreading Islam by the sword as they did in the 6th and 7th centuries, long before the Crusades.

Those friendly governments, that 'great majority' of "nice" Muslims remain deafingly silent to these atrocities, but more imprtantly they themselves do nothing. Leave the policing and retaliation to others who then can be controlled and made to pussyfoot for fear of being "Islamaphobes" or racists. Indeed, who can withstand the fury of those moral cowards and elitist misfits like the NY Times and its script hungry readers who would be "appalled" to use their phony moral high ground descriptive of choice?

It is significant to me that these murderers in Paris were not on a suicide mission, i.e., no way out, a la World Trade Center, Flight 93, the sneaker bomber Reid etc.

They are apparently living in an atmosphere where they think they can escape safely into some rat hole in some "no go" zone. Interesting that they had that belief. Arrogance. Then rob a gas station?

When pre-Colombian Europe's civilization was threatened by Islam, it reacted swiftly and decisively.

When Hitler and the Nazis 'finally' went too far, Europe had no choice but to wake up and try to salvage civilization. Interesting, that one of our greatest and wisest Generals and Presidents entitled his war time memoir "Crusade in Europe."

Maybe I'm drawing hasty lines in the sand in my search of action against Islamic terrorism. I don't think I am. The vast majority of Muslims say little or act hypocritically as nations, they still allow the hate mongering imams in their toxic little schools all over the world - poisoning generation after generation. They do nothing. Who's left to act?

You know, history's pendulum swings, and left unmoderated, it swings too far. Crush post World War I Germany and a Hitler emerges. Don't we know that there are anti-Islamic, overly nationalistic parties through out Europe fuming and growing tonight.

Nothing is done, but nature abhors a vacuum and maybe not the best thing will fill that growing vacuum.

The US can exert oh so indelicate and 'appalling' pressure on Europe to clean up its backyards and regain self respect. The US can continue to use an iron fist on terrorists and keep them locked up for thirty years or more notwithstanding the cries of the UN and its constituent US haters.

Yeah, we can do economic pressure, military pressure and plain stop being beholden to Arabs with oil - the biggest blackmailers and hypocrites around.

Any further and I fear I'll be deep in a domestic political free for all and that is not my intent to violate the rules here. Seriously.
How about we enforce the law, and if you violate the law and are illegal then you are gone from that country that day ?

And insure that everyone respects the law of the nation and not obscure laws that merge with religion.

Oh, and do not allow anyone of any faith or creed or race establish their own law in an area and stop policing that area to allow it

Work ?
  #117  
Old 01-08-2015, 07:52 PM
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Good, logical and non-discriminatory ideas.
  #118  
Old 01-08-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
How about we enforce the law, and if you violate the law and are illegal then you are gone from that country that day ?

And insure that everyone respects the law of the nation and not obscure laws that merge with religion.

Oh, and do not allow anyone of any faith or creed or race establish their own law in an area and stop policing that area to allow it

Work ?

To me it sounds very reasonable. Enough is enough.
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  #119  
Old 01-08-2015, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
How about we enforce the law, and if you violate the law and are illegal then you are gone from that country that day ?

And insure that everyone respects the law of the nation and not obscure laws that merge with religion.

Oh, and do not allow anyone of any faith or creed or race establish their own law in an area and stop policing that area to allow it

Work ?
this is an excellent start to get America back!Now if we can just find a way get our government representatives to go along with it and us.
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  #120  
Old 01-08-2015, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
How about we enforce the law, and if you violate the law and are illegal then you are gone from that country that day ?

And insure that everyone respects the law of the nation and not obscure laws that merge with religion.

Oh, and do not allow anyone of any faith or creed or race establish their own law in an area and stop policing that area to allow it

Work ?
Do you have a campaign manager yet Rags123?
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