12 killed in Paris by extreme Islamists.

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  #91  
Old 01-08-2015, 09:16 AM
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While this discussion is helpful (btw, it’s terrorism with a capital T) we are still focused on the symptom.

-- Islamic inspired murder is the symptom.

-- Islamic immigration into France is THE problem.

France has a choice … even though it’s 10% Muslim now, either start forcing mass deportations to any Islamic country of their choice, or start learning to pray on both knees in about 20 years. If the Islamics who won’t assimilate aren’t kicked out, they will take over thru demographics, violence and intimidation.

The feckless support by Western elites for “multiculturalism” is not only short sighted but will eventually, and predictably, prove suicidal for our kids and grandkids.

Most of us know this is true …. but we are in many cases afraid to state the obvious.
  #92  
Old 01-08-2015, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
THAT is EXACTLY my fear in this country. Many, if not most, immigrants that come here now have no plan to EVER be assimilated into our society, and will resist efforts to do that. In the past we were set up so that those immigrants who naturally stayed together in this country needed to assimilate to succeed or survive. Now, it appears that is not necessary or wanted. I spelled out a few months ago on here my experiences in Pennsylvania where the spanish speaking community plain refused to participate in programs for youth that we were expanding to include them...they were clear that they wanted to say within themselves.

Having pockets as you describe in this country, and they DO exist as I have spelled out and you recall. Then when we discuss them and suggest changes, we are made to feel guilty.

Sorry..hate to be trite, but if you come to America, bring your countries best of's and hold them dear, but become an American. Again, if you say this you are made to be the "bad guy"

This attack was a terrorist attack, and sadly, we can expect more as long as we allow it and I sincerely mean that...as long as we allow it.
Is it not apparent to local and federal government workers (highest to lowest ranks all included) what is happening? We know they are as aware as we are about the concern this "zoning" and watering down of requirements of immigrants is causing. Just look at France, England and Germany as well.

It is time to cease and desist the notion that we must throw open our doors to all comers legal and now unlimited illegals. We need to demand they fulfill certain obligations to become citizens. The must be made to speak english or not be allowed to stay. We must get back to being hard nosed about the guidelines for being allowed to live and become a citizen of the USA.
And if they do not comply they must be asked to go back to where they came.

There is no need for our government to continue offerring incentives to illegal entrants to our country.

Some call it political correctness....a term and notion I personally cannot stand or condone. There is a definite need to abide by and ENFORCE our laws and rules whether it offends some or not.

What is it going to take to awaken the American people to demand our government that it is time to stop playing political nice nice and to put forth a hard line attitude toward those who would take up residence in our country, continually demanding a watering down of our dearly held values, beliefs and freedoms.

Many of us, I would venture a guess the majority, are completely against what is happening to and in our country. And not liking the current trend of watering down America....just think what the next generation of America will be like as these zones and population centers of illegals continue to multiply.

While some may not like the notion or the sound of it.....we need to mount a movement to take back America....while we still can.
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  #93  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
Is it not apparent to local and federal government workers (highest to lowest ranks all included) what is happening? We know they are as aware as we are about the concern this "zoning" and watering down of requirements of immigrants is causing. Just look at France, England and Germany as well.

It is time to cease and desist the notion that we must throw open our doors to all comers legal and now unlimited illegals. We need to demand they fulfill certain obligations to become citizens. The must be made to speak english or not be allowed to stay. We must get back to being hard nosed about the guidelines for being allowed to live and become a citizen of the USA.
And if they do not comply they must be asked to go back to where they came.

There is no need for our government to continue offerring incentives to illegal entrants to our country.

Some call it political correctness....a term and notion I personally cannot stand or condone. There is a definite need to abide by and ENFORCE our laws and rules whether it offends some or not.

What is it going to take to awaken the American people to demand our government that it is time to stop playing political nice nice and to put forth a hard line attitude toward those who would take up residence in our country, continually demanding a watering down of our dearly held values, beliefs and freedoms.

Many of us, I would venture a guess the majority, are completely against what is happening to and in our country. And not liking the current trend of watering down America....just think what the next generation of America will be like as these zones and population centers of illegals continue to multiply.

While some may not like the notion or the sound of it.....we need to mount a movement to take back America....while we still can.
More research is needed on this topic. What Turns Some Western Muslims Into Terrorists? The Causes of Extremism
  #94  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:03 AM
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Historians should review what happens when utilizing the "appeasement" approach. Specifically as WWII broke out and UK's Neville Chamberlain"s triumphant "agreement" of appeasement with Hitler. In the current vernacular "how is that working for you" Appeasement in WWII enabled the enemy to murder countless millions people, because they could. Appeasement simply delays the inevitable.
  #95  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by billethkid View Post
Is it not apparent to local and federal government workers (highest to lowest ranks all included) what is happening? We know they are as aware as we are about the concern this "zoning" and watering down of requirements of immigrants is causing. Just look at France, England and Germany as well.

It is time to cease and desist the notion that we must throw open our doors to all comers legal and now unlimited illegals. We need to demand they fulfill certain obligations to become citizens. The must be made to speak english or not be allowed to stay. We must get back to being hard nosed about the guidelines for being allowed to live and become a citizen of the USA.
And if they do not comply they must be asked to go back to where they came.

There is no need for our government to continue offerring incentives to illegal entrants to our country.

Some call it political correctness....a term and notion I personally cannot stand or condone. There is a definite need to abide by and ENFORCE our laws and rules whether it offends some or not.

What is it going to take to awaken the American people to demand our government that it is time to stop playing political nice nice and to put forth a hard line attitude toward those who would take up residence in our country, continually demanding a watering down of our dearly held values, beliefs and freedoms.

Many of us, I would venture a guess the majority, are completely against what is happening to and in our country. And not liking the current trend of watering down America....just think what the next generation of America will be like as these zones and population centers of illegals continue to multiply.

While some may not like the notion or the sound of it.....we need to mount a movement to take back America....while we still can.
I concur totally but be prepared for the onslaught of rhetoric and DEMONSTRATIONS that are geared to make anyone who feels this way to be the guilty party.

Two quotes come to mind in response to the continuing onslaught to make us the bad guy.....to those who profess this "idealism"...

"It is not materialism that is the chief curse of the world, as pastors teach, but idealism. Men get into trouble by taking their visions and hallucinations too seriously."
H. L. Mencken


"Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive."
William F. Buckley, Jr.
  #96  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
I guess one has to read the rest of the book to garner any conclusions!
What was presented via the link does not match up with what "seems" to be presented as the Muslim zones in European countries today. Where they live their life and religion and feel no obligation to the citizens or government of the country they are residing in!
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  #97  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
I read your link and am glad you shared it, but it more than ever cemented my thoughts. Again, the article speaks of how we are guilty again. While I understand there is more to this, I suggest this quote from the ending..

"What we are left to contemplate is a group of new immigrants, large but not the largest, who come from poor and religious backgrounds, who are settling into the social, political and reproductive patterns of their new homes, but whose progress is sometimes interrupted economically and educationally, and therefore socially, by institutions that deny them the same opportunities as their native-born neighbours. This may feel like an unprecedented phenomenon. But, as we shall see in the next chapter, it is far from unprecedented. We have been through all of this before."

I noted that it says "it is far from unprecedented. We have been through all of this before." and I offer this...

Yep it did happen before as I have said in my posts. Difference was the ACCEPTANCE of the United States Law both by the immigrant and by the United States. We have become our own worse enemy by using the plight of people, whether immigrant or something else, to launch guilt at everyone in the country who does not agree with allowing.

Nobody is forcing anyone to come to the US......but we should force respect for and conformity with our LAW.

I never have a problem with solutions to solve poverty or lack of education, etc, but I do have a problem being guilted into it. There are good reasons to solve those problems and we have done it before but not in the current environment we have in this country. We are a giving and understanding people, but do not take well to being forced into it.

And no other group has brought their OWN LAW with them...a law that is in direct difference with our existing law here. Observing of religion is not a problem but changing the law of the land where you want to live to allow for those religious freedoms is not something we are based on,
  #98  
Old 01-08-2015, 10:23 AM
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Western idealism is cruelled in the Middle East

This is worth a look.
  #99  
Old 01-08-2015, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rags123 View Post
I read your link and am glad you shared it, but it more than ever cemented my thoughts. Again, the article speaks of how we are guilty again. While I understand there is more to this, I suggest this quote from the ending..

"What we are left to contemplate is a group of new immigrants, large but not the largest, who come from poor and religious backgrounds, who are settling into the social, political and reproductive patterns of their new homes, but whose progress is sometimes interrupted economically and educationally, and therefore socially, by institutions that deny them the same opportunities as their native-born neighbours. This may feel like an unprecedented phenomenon. But, as we shall see in the next chapter, it is far from unprecedented. We have been through all of this before."

I noted that it says "it is far from unprecedented. We have been through all of this before." and I offer this...

Yep it did happen before as I have said in my posts. Difference was the ACCEPTANCE of the United States Law both by the immigrant and by the United States. We have become our own worse enemy by using the plight of people, whether immigrant or something else, to launch guilt at everyone in the country who does not agree with allowing.

Nobody is forcing anyone to come to the US......but we should force respect for and conformity with our LAW.

I never have a problem with solutions to solve poverty or lack of education, etc, but I do have a problem being guilted into it. There are good reasons to solve those problems and we have done it before but not in the current environment we have in this country. We are a giving and understanding people, but do not take well to being forced into it.

And no other group has brought their OWN LAW with them...a law that is in direct difference with our existing law here. Observing of religion is not a problem but changing the law of the land where you want to live to allow for those religious freedoms is not something we are based on,
I have been reading this thread with great interest and appreciate the wisdom and thought provoking posts from many of you. The sentence that is in bold and underlined above really made me think - if you put it in the simplest of terms (sometimes my little brain just works that way!), it's like inviting someone to live with you in your own home. If they don't respect you and the rules that you lay out for them in order to live there peacefully with you, it seems that only one of 2 things can happen. Either their ways/attitudes/ beliefs will eventually take over because you feel intimidated/quilty/or whatever, OR you will stand up to them and tell them to leave! Put in these terms, the right answer seems so simple.
  #100  
Old 01-08-2015, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shrandell View Post
Historians should review what happens when utilizing the "appeasement" approach. Specifically as WWII broke out and UK's Neville Chamberlain"s triumphant "agreement" of appeasement with Hitler. In the current vernacular "how is that working for you" Appeasement in WWII enabled the enemy to murder countless millions people, because they could. Appeasement simply delays the inevitable.
I think your comments about appeasement are correct and spot on historically. However, I would also add appeasement is the refuge of cowardly and weak political leaders who simply do not have the stomach to a) accurately identify the problem and then b) actually take action that's effective , vs simply emitting a word fog that obscures it.

Radical Islam is the problem obviously and it is scary because the true believers have consistently shown they will employ violence. This tactic works because it shuts a lot of people up including Western leaders. And, as you say, this only delays the inevitable.
  #101  
Old 01-08-2015, 01:47 PM
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https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/m...tion-increase/

The above link is food for thought as we try to put this into perspective. Understand that this Islamic Terrorism will not go away anytime soon. Unless drastic measures are put in place we will unequivocally be dealing with this on our own soil. Percentages of population will determine the level of behavior and/or terrorism. One only needs to look at France, Britain, Sweden, Spain etc. It's time to take our heads out of the sand folks. We The People need to know the truth and we should hear that from our leaders.

I know we have been clamoring for the moderate muslims to speak out against such acts of terrorism but I submit that they are fearful and powerless to stop it. A moderate to speak out against it would then be labeled an apostate by those radicals within that religeon.
  #102  
Old 01-08-2015, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by shrandell View Post
Historians should review what happens when utilizing the "appeasement" approach. Specifically as WWII broke out and UK's Neville Chamberlain"s triumphant "agreement" of appeasement with Hitler. In the current vernacular "how is that working for you" Appeasement in WWII enabled the enemy to murder countless millions people, because they could. Appeasement simply delays the inevitable.

This is a very insightful piece. Those of us our age may be aware of this historic fact but our juniors are generally oblivious to what we think of as recent history. We have leaders who are in the same mode right now. One recent statement is: "ISIL is not Islamic." Another is: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam". I'm skating on thin ice but I think we need to understand the context of our current situation.
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  #103  
Old 01-08-2015, 03:55 PM
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This is a very insightful piece. Those of us our age may be aware of this historic fact but our juniors are generally oblivious to what we think of as recent history. We have leaders who are in the same mode right now. One recent statement is: "ISIL is not Islamic." Another is: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam". I'm skating on thin ice but I think we need to understand the context of our current situation.
Do you know any Muslims? This is like saying all African Americans are followers of Black Panthers kind of exhortations to violence or all Christians saying that we should bomb abortion clinics.

I went to library school (University of Denver Class of 1984) with a kind decent but very religious librarian from the University of Mosul. The Iran-Iraq War did somewhat revolutionize him judging from the letters sent to me after he want back to Iraq. His friends though-- a group of University of Denver Graduate Students-- were from different Arab/Muslim countries and EACH and every of these people were individuals with their own take on things. My Iraqi librarian friend was also the brother of some kind of military leader in the Iraq Army so sibling rivalry and input also came into this heavily.

I had a person one year in back of me while at the University of Minnesota Law School who became the first Muslim elected to Congress-- Keith Ellison. His views were ambitious but nothing out of the ordinary according to his U of MN Class of 1990 Classmates. I was Class of 1989. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison I doubt if reading much of his work that you can tell that he is a Muslim.

ISIL is run by very violent extremists and these brutal thugs are hardly reflective of an ordinary Muslim in any country.
  #104  
Old 01-08-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Do you know any Muslims? This is like saying all African Americans are followers of Black Panthers kind of exhortations to violence or all Christians saying that we should bomb abortion clinics.

I went to library school (University of Denver Class of 1984) with a kind decent but very religious librarian from the University of Mosul. The Iran-Iraq War did somewhat revolutionize him judging from the letters sent to me after he want back to Iraq. His friends though-- a group of University of Denver Graduate Students-- were from different Arab/Muslim countries and EACH and every of these people were individuals with their own take on things. My Iraqi librarian friend was also the brother of some kind of military leader in the Iraq Army so sibling rivalry and input also came into this heavily.

I had a person one year in back of me while at the University of Minnesota Law School who became the first Muslim elected to Congress-- Keith Ellison. His views were ambitious but nothing out of the ordinary according to his U of MN Class of 1990 Classmates. I was Class of 1989. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison I doubt if reading much of his work that you can tell that he is a Muslim.

ISIL is run by very violent extremists and these brutal thugs are hardly reflective of an ordinary Muslim in any country.
I do. And most of them are terrified to speak up, even though they live here now. Those that do are largely professionals, including physicians. Those that don't will speak frankly in private but not public. One was a personal physician to the Shah of Iran. I also have friends from Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc.

I'm still trying to figure out how you took my comments as including all of any culture, race, or religion. I was speaking out against appeasement and political correctness - not throwing all Muslims under the bus.
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  #105  
Old 01-08-2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Do you know any Muslims? This is like saying all African Americans are followers of Black Panthers kind of exhortations to violence or all Christians saying that we should bomb abortion clinics.

I went to library school (University of Denver Class of 1984) with a kind decent but very religious librarian from the University of Mosul. The Iran-Iraq War did somewhat revolutionize him judging from the letters sent to me after he want back to Iraq. His friends though-- a group of University of Denver Graduate Students-- were from different Arab/Muslim countries and EACH and every of these people were individuals with their own take on things. My Iraqi librarian friend was also the brother of some kind of military leader in the Iraq Army so sibling rivalry and input also came into this heavily.

I had a person one year in back of me while at the University of Minnesota Law School who became the first Muslim elected to Congress-- Keith Ellison. His views were ambitious but nothing out of the ordinary according to his U of MN Class of 1990 Classmates. I was Class of 1989. Keith Ellison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I doubt if reading much of his work that you can tell that he is a Muslim.

ISIL is run by very violent extremists and these brutal thugs are hardly reflective of an ordinary Muslim in any country.
How would you classify those who start and control the NO GO zones ? In essence they do not kill, thus not extremist, yet they will not allow police to enforce the law of the land because they follow another law which is in contrast.

How would you classify those who insist that Muslim law is the ONLY law they will abide by and that the national law is irrevellant ? Imagine each religious belief picking and choosing the laws of the land they wish to follow

Islam is a body which encompasses all parts of society...religious, political, social etc. Those who kill may be what you call extremists. HOWEVER, those who refuse to obey a national set of laws because it does not fit their Islam is very dangerous to the very fabric of that country.

Anybody's religion is their business but it cannot impact the nations enforcement of their laws and that is a concern because these Zones are doing just that, although they are not all out killing, the seed of those killings is there.
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