[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

You may be right, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Let's get down to the business of making this flawed program work for all. It has wonderful implications and will prove to be one of the best things done in our lifetime.

It is too late.....why cannot you see it. If this is not overturned and a complete discussion of all the issues without moving in the direction this takes us...in the open as promised, with all parties involved as promised. What you are saying will cause more grief than already exists now......for more people......yeah, someone will need to fix it eventually.......but I am just tired of all this rhetoric based on politics....this is a health bill for the USA, not one party......rich, poor, black, white, hispanic, jew, catholic...whatever ALL are being touched by this bill and I suggest when all the tentacles that exist hit the IRS, and after all the votes that this was after are counted, this will rank as one of the largest financial disaster ever enacted, unless....YES, at unless some one fixes it.

But, tell you what.....I would not be too fast to even try just listening to the rhetoric.....as the poster who said whomever wins can do....hey, you didnt want us then.....you changed the rules and paid off senators...YOU fix it

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Bucco

"So what would the ideal alternative to Obamacare look like? It should provide cost-effective care and the quality treatment that Americans deserve. Effective reform should discourage over-insurance that results from the subsidy of so-called Cadillac plans that pay for basic, inexpensive and predictable procedures and have patient co-payments that are too low. Reform should encourage consumers to use America’s scarce health resources efficiently by inducing them to get tests and treatments that are justified instead of those that are selected because they are almost free to the decision-makers. Finally, reform should make health insurance available to the vast majority of Americans, some of whom cannot afford insurance without help.

The Bush 2007 plan achieves these goals"


Read more: Bushcare - Edward Lazear - POLITICO Magazine

Not saying this is a great plan....do not know, but tired of the "bleeding hearts" calling anyone who disagrees with the dishonestly and blatant political nature of this bill...a bill ONLY PASSED with manipulation.....someone who does not care.

To me, that speaks to the character of those making the charge. Fix it ? Why ? How can you "fix it" now ?

I respectfully disagree. The AHC has been a winner from its beginning and went into LAW because of its honest statement for the need of healthcare for all and not just the few.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Sorry you feel that way. I wish you the best.

Lou

platitudes are neither requested nor appreciated.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I respectfully disagree. The AHC has been a winner from its beginning and went into LAW because of its honest statement for the need of healthcare for all and not just the few.

Bad laws are made to be changed or ignored or broken

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by DianeM

Bad laws are made to be changed or ignored or broken

Boy Howdy, I am sorry you feel that way.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I respectfully disagree. The AHC has been a winner from its beginning and went into LAW because of its honest statement for the need of healthcare for all and not just the few.

If this is the end all be all why are there so many exceptions to the mandate and changes along the way. You said a winner from the beginning - that doesn't synch with all the changes and extensions.

[philnpat]

Everyone...REMEMBER it IS April Fools Day!

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by DianeM

Bad laws are made to be changed or ignored or broken

How 100% true as evidenced by the 33 changes made with the"pen".....and the waivers and the exemptions and the privleged...and for those who don't like the direction the wind is blowing today. It has been since passed changed and ignored acknowledging it started out broken.

[Golfingnut]

Please be calm and look at this as a way to improve the lives of the 40 Million people on the lower rung of the income ladder. They need health care as much as we in Upper levels of income do. This is not asking for everyone to live in a place like the villages and have our income, but rather it is about giving a struggling mother the opportunity to have a family doctor to care for her children when their suffering. Many of the folks that will benefit from this LAW have never seen a dream Village like we live in nor been in a luxury home like we take for granted. Give them the avenue to have the peace of mind that their basic health care needs are within their reach.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I respectfully disagree. The AHC has been a winner from its beginning and went into LAW because of its honest statement for the need of healthcare for all and not just the few.

So you support the actions taken to get this bill passed as FACTUALLY outlined here....

This is the last sentence of the write up on HOW this was manipulated and shoved at us...

"To quote Democrat Rep. Alcee Hastings of the House Rules Committee during the bill process: “We’re making up the rules as we go along.”

http://www.crawfordbroadcasting.com/...came%20Law.pdf

And if you really want to get chills up your spine with your pride in this, read a bit about Mr Hastings and his impeachments, ethics committees and such.

Makes you so proud of the "honesty" involved and you recall all those public hearings promised by the President a few times....oh, wait..he promised but did not do it.

It is dishonest to use the word "honest" in the same sentence as this bill

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Please be calm and look at this as a way to improve the lives of the 40 Million people on the lower rung of the income ladder. They need health care as much as we in Upper levels of income do. This is not asking for everyone to live in a place like the villages and have our income, but rather it is about giving a struggling mother the opportunity to have a family doctor to care for her children when their suffering. Many of the folks that will benefit from this LAW have never seen a dream Village like we live in nor been in a luxury home like we take for granted. Give them the avenue to have the peace of mind that their basic health care needs are within their reach.

You talk as if everyone wants these folks to lose health care....WHERE did you get that idea....ALL of the bills ignored for this addressed the issue you keep bringing up.

Nobody has ever said what you keep talking about. This bill is a financial mess and was done for politics....if that makes you proud instead of a well thought out and discussed legislation, then so be it..not something I want to be happening in my country

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You talk as if everyone wants these folks to lose health care....WHERE did you get that idea....ALL of the bills ignored for this addressed the issue you keep bringing up.

Nobody has ever said what you keep talking about. This bill is a financial mess and was done for politics....if that makes you proud instead of a well thought out and discussed legislation, then so be it..not something I want to be happening in my country

I see needed changes and now is the time to start work on them. This is law...... Now like so many other laws of the land, let's modify it to make it better.
I am so proud of what is being accomplished for so many by this law. One or two years from today, this law will be talked about as one of the best laws ever passed.

[billethkid]

one example to contemplate that I heard directly from an insurance company executive. The subject of pre-existing conditions.

The insurance companies are accepting these people now when they would not have in the past. And, for now, there is no major increase in premiums.

Many of us who have provided insurance for employees over the years learned and know that as claim cost go up premiums are soon to follow. This has been, among others, one of the driving issues of increasing costs that over the years have all but eliminate "company" provided health care is nearly extinct.

Back to the current. As those with pre existing conditions health care costs....new costs to the provider on top of what they were already experiencing....start to accumulate these new costs will result in much higher premiums as the incidence rate as well as the per individual claims paid rate is now burdened on top of current operating costs.

These costs will initially be passed on to the insured or they will be offset by some government subsidy to either the patient or the provider. And this money will come from where? You guessed it.

As a result of this "new" cost balloon being inflated every day and the delays it will take to get compensated there will be many insurance companies that will just get out of the business.

And of course this all plays to the single payer scheme that was overwhelmingly rejected by our lawmakers even during the railroading of the ACA.

The above is just one example of a ticking bomb being hidden in the workings of this law.....and health care industry leaders know it and their hands are tied.....until the balloon bursts.

One example. Responsible people do not have to be a benefactor of bad legislation to be convinced ...it ain't that bad....and those who allude to now "knowing" what is in the bill now that it has been passed are just kidding themselves.

Time will most certainly be the test. And there is no doubt the currently unknown costs of implementation will become an overwhelming burden for this country and it's citizens......including those who believe otherwise.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I see needed changes and now is the time to start work on them. This is law...... Now like so many other laws of the land, let's modify it to make it better.
I am so proud of what is being accomplished for so many by this law. One or two years from today, this law will be talked about as one of the best laws ever passed.

Please tell me how you can be PROUD of these dishonest actions that have been and continued to be used for politics ONLY ?????? I honestly want to know what you are PROUD of......to me, it is ...well, lets leave the adjective for later, but I aint proud of this bill. You wait a few years while congress is all tied up dealing with the financial bind of this bill. You thought we had a deficit problem ? This pretty much sews it up.

Again, there are and have been alternatives to do what you say, but as of now, all folks get is ridiculed for even bringing them up. Could have been avoided, should have been avoided.

[Golfingnut]

I think the insurance industry will say anything true or false to protect the large profits. Facts shoe this AHC will bring costs down for the majority.