[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Bucco

And the true Latin translation fits. Not the meaning given in general, but the true philosophy.

"

Yep.
Steve

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Are we saying goodbye to "E Pluribus Unum"[/B]

Nope
Steve

[Taltarzac725]

NAMI Statement on Mass Shootings in Texas and Ohio | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness

This should be read by anyone wanting to do something about stopping these mass shootings.

We all want an end to these horrific acts of violence. To achieve this, we need to find meaningful solutions to protect our communities from senseless violence and lasting trauma. We owe it to future generations to end this cycle for everyone, because the status quo is literally killing us.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

NAMI Statement on Mass Shootings in Texas and Ohio | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness

This should be read by anyone wanted to do something about stopping these mass shootings.

Just remember - if "mental illness" was at the root of the epidemic of hate-fueled mass shootings, they wouldn't only be occuring with this frequency in the USA. It would be world wide.

Why? Because mental illness is not an American illness. It is a worldwide illness. Mental illness doesn't stop at our borders, or even at the edge of our continent.

It isn't happening with this frequency world wide. Therefore - mental illness cannot possibly be the cause, or even a primary trigger.

Science/medical research phrase: correlation does not equal causation.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

...It isn't happening with this frequency world wide. Therefore - mental illness cannot possibly be the cause, or even a primary trigger...

Waaaay overstated. “Cannot possibly...”.
That phrase is a red flag immediately. If such certainty related to major parts of this problem was accurate, it wouldn’t be the dilemma that it is.

Everybody has opinions regarding this difficult problem. It’s just important to remember that such statements are just that...opinions...regardless of how they are stated.

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Just remember - if "mental illness" was at the root of the epidemic of hate-fueled mass shootings, they wouldn't only be occuring with this frequency in the USA. It would be world wide.

Why? Because mental illness is not an American illness. It is a worldwide illness. Mental illness doesn't stop at our borders, or even at the edge of our continent.

It isn't happening with this frequency world wide. Therefore - mental illness cannot possibly be the cause, or even a primary trigger.

Science/medical research phrase: correlation does not equal causation.

It is untrue that the US is the only one with the problem and it is true that the US is a country with by far one of the largest populations which is also a huge factor.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...gs-by-country/

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by fw102807

It is untrue that the US is the only one with the problem and it is true that the US is a country with by far one of the largest populations which is also a huge factor.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...gs-by-country/

No one said the US is the "only one" with the problem. You're absolutely right though, we're not the only one with the problem.

But Japan has a much higher incident of mental illness, a larger population in a smaller area of real estate, and they have zero mass shootings in the same period of time that we have.

If mental illness is only a factor in the USA with regards to mass shooters, and mental illness occurs worldwide at even higher percentages, then mental illness cannot be a valid factor.

If it was, then you could much easier blame it on water consumption, or the phenomenon of men who wear long pants during certain portions of the year.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No one said the US is the "only one" with the problem. You're absolutely right though, we're not the only one with the problem.

But Japan has a much higher incident of mental illness, a larger population in a smaller area of real estate, and they have zero mass shootings in the same period of time that we have.

If mental illness is only a factor in the USA with regards to mass shooters, and mental illness occurs worldwide at even higher percentages, then mental illness cannot be a valid factor.

If it was, then you could much easier blame it on water consumption, or the phenomenon of men who wear long pants during certain portions of the year.

It would be inappropriate to group all mental illness into a single group to make those conclusions. There are thousands of forms of mental illness.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

It would be inappropriate to group all mental illness into a single group to make those conclusions. There are thousands of forms of mental illness.

And about 1/5 of the US population had or has some kind of mental illness. Mental Health By the Numbers | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness

Depression, anxiety, addiction to various things, etc.

And America in 2019 is probably very hard on the mental well-being of just about anyone with any common sense and decency. These are scary times.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Tal, there are not words to console your grief even after the passing of time. Be strong

This was in late 2014. Thank You. About the same time as the loss of my younger brother due to long term alcohol addiction. Which IMHO is also a mental health problem.

[graciegirl]

comorbidity of mental illness and drug use - Bing

There were approximately 40,000 gun deaths in U.S. in 2018.

There were approximately 70,000 deaths in U.S. from drug overdose in 2018.

The criteria for mental illness is very broad and may or may not include OCD, anxiety, ADHD and other illnesses not deemed as severe as other mental illnesses that may trigger criminal activity and hospitalization and long term treatment by a mental health specialist.

I don't think anyone, at this point can really say with authority what caused either of these young men to do what they did and what if anything that could have been done to stop it before it happened. I would like to know more about the families of the shooters, the home environment of the shooters. Did they rebel against what they were taught, or did they take on the family values? What made them SO ANGRY? What made them so cold hearted to take so many innocent lives of people they did not know as well as the one family member in the case of the Dayton shooter? I would like to know the "whole story" before I can decide what I think is the primary causes of these events and what if anything we as a government and a society can do to change things.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

comorbidity of mental illness and drug use - Bing

There were approximately 40,000 gun deaths in U.S. in 2018.

There were approximately 70,000 deaths in U.S. from drug overdose in 2018.

The criteria for mental illness is very broad and may or may not include OCD, anxiety, AHCD and other illnesses not deemed as severe as other mental illnesses that may trigger hospitalization and long term treatment by a mental health specialist.

I don't think anyone, at this point can really say with authority what caused either of these young men to do what they did and what if anything that could have been done to stop it before it happened. I would like to know more about the families of the shooters, the home environment of the shooters. Did they rebel against what they were taught, or did they take on the family values? What made them SO ANGRY? What made them so cold hearted to take so many innocent lives of people they did not know as well as the one family member in the case of the Dayton shooter? I would like to know the "whole story" before I can decide what I think is the primary causes of these events and what if anything we can do to change things.

Since one of these mass killers is still alive we will find out quite a lot.

I interviewed at the University of Texas at El Paso library for a law librarian position back in November or maybe early December of 2001. They paid to fly me back-and-forth and for a night at a hotel and a few meals.

I found the people of UTEP quite friendly and the city of El Paso was attractive.

I was only there about 24 hours or less than that. Did meet a bunch of librarians at UTEP and the UTEP President and other university administrators.

The University of Texas at El Paso does have a lot of Hispanics attending as well as in their staff.

[billethkid]

When causes are investigated looking at other countries the common denominator is often mental illness.

Be sure to observe what it is that is more prevalent in the USA but NOT in other countries. Like the openness of violence, rape, murder, mayhem, dismembering, etc in television, movies, games.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by billethkid

When causes are investigated looking at other countries the common denominator is often mental illness.

Be sure to observe what it is that is more prevalent in the USA but NOT in other countries. Like the openness of violence, rape, murder, mayhem, dismembering, etc in television, movies, games.

All of these countries have access to Hollywood movies and video games and the like.

Some of the foreign movies are even more violent than some of the Hollywood ones.

The problem is guns and access to them here in the United States and the NRA and their death grip on some.

I read about a study many years ago in the prison system. The prisoners were asked why they had committed their crimes and the overwhelming answer was that they felt they had nothing to believe in and nothing to hope for so in essence they felt they had nothing to lose. I am not a gun advocate, I don't have one and I don't want one but don't think gun regulation is the solution. Nobody is going to convince me that walking into Walmart and killing innocent people is a sane act.