[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am interested in the basis for that sentence. Judaism IIRC, has absolutely nothing to say about Jesus, or Buddha, or Mohammad, or the great pumpkin.

Yahoo search: The Jewish view of Jesus

Should I have said preacher instead of philosopher?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by onslowe

Moral Relativism. One religion is as good or the same as the next. Well, I can't agree at all. Relativism is a quickly disposed of "stance" for the intellectually lazy and morally clueless amongst us. Mother Theresa is the same as Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin.

Precisely, Mother Theresa is not the same as Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin. Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin are not religions. Wasn't I talking about religion?

Logic demands honesty.

Okay, so let's slow down and try using some honesty in your comparisons.

God doesn't work by democracy, human concepts of equality, nor feel good false kumbaya emotions.

I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with what I said.

[onslowe]

Maybe I should have written "Mother Theresa's morals are the same as Adolph Hitler's morals." Your words were "Religious freedom and its moral relativism…" You joined together a man made civil right with an odious world view and philosophy which must lead to no morality. Slow down and consider it.

There is a big difference between the Divine mandate that we love (i.e. care about) all others and the modern half baked "feeling" that each religion is as good as the next. To a believer, and indeed anyone who slows down and considers the facts that is simply not true.

I note that there is no reply to the statement of Jesus. So be it. I can't persuade anyone, but I can and will pray for you.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by onslowe

Moral Relativism. One religion is as good or the same as the next. Well, I can't agree at all. Relativism is a quickly disposed of "stance" for the intellectually lazy and morally clueless amongst us. Mother Theresa is the same as Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin. A wild eyed beheader is morally the same as a medical missionary. And so on.

Logic demands honesty.

God doesn't work by democracy, human concepts of equality, nor feel good false kumbaya emotions.

I am a stumbling, bumbling Christian who worships in the Anglo Catholic faith and Church.
I believe Jesus is the Son of God. Like the rest of my knuckle dragging simple ilk, I believe God doesn't lie. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." He didn't say "I am one of the Ways�."

And that's all I have to say about that.

onslowe: I totally agree with your position on moral relativism because this sliding scale technique is another way of saying no matter what one does I can't be wrong. It give one an excuse. It rationalizes bad behavior . Mother Theresa in my view was an excellent example of pure love.
The manner in which you write tells me how deeply and completely you believe and how pure your love ,for God and His word. That deserve respect

[onslowe]

Thank you for your kind words, Rubicon.

[DAWN MARIE]

I have sat in the chair of unbelief. It's usually a prerequisite before one comes to belief as we all start out as unbelievers to some extent. I am no longer sitting there because I am now a firm believer in a Creator God who desires to have a personal relationship with his creation. I've come face to face with him and have no doubt He is real and very much alive.

For those who believe we should be quiet and say nothing I have to strongly disagree. If you have any belief at all in Christ, you know his central message was "go and tell" and was one of the last things he said before he left this earth. Many of the early church went to their death "telling" and were not ashamed to do so. Many are losing their lives today in other parts of the world for doing this same thing. We don't get to heaven on warm fuzzy feelings. It's not about doing good...it's not even about being good. It's about believing in and putting our trust in the one who did the most good for all of us.

To keep quiet and not say anything is akin to seeing a bridge washed out ahead on a dark night and not warning those approaching the danger that lies ahead. If you know an alternate route with a safe bridge that is sturdy with no danger of failing isn't it most loving to speak up and warn those approaching the washed out bridge? The physical is always an example of a spiritual truth. We are all traveling along a road with many obstacles and dangers. Just because it's in the spiritual realm doesn't make it any less dangerous. In fact it's much more dangerous than the physical because it has eternal consequences. So that's why I put my trust in the only one that loves me with a dying love who came to warn us about the danger and point to the bridge that he himself built for us that will never fall apart.

[Sophie11]

and in the end it is what you do with your faith.

We are called to use all the resources God has given us and work diligently at our callings, maximizing the return for the Master while we expectantly await His return.

I am amazed by the people who do not know Jesus Christ is the only way ):

The wheat and the tares are being separated.

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I would say no, we can't. Choosing hasn't been my experience. I didn't choose anything and I have no idea how anyone would go about choosing.

I did choose lots of things in my life so I know how choosing works. But when it comes to faith as it is set forth in the Bible, like a prescription, I don't see it like so many others do.

I don't mind thinking and accepting the idea that there might be some higher power in the universe. But I don't know what it is and I doubt it's going to reward me with eternal life if I'm good.

VPL -- don't you think that "not choosing" is a decision and therefore you have chosen?

". . . . . I doubt it's going to reward me with eternal life if I'm good." I don't believe that either. As a Christian, I want my behaviors to be good behaviors, not because others may say they are good, but because they are simply the right thing to do. And there have been a few times when I actually accomplished that. Probably not nearly often enough but fortunately God has provided all of us with the opportunity for Grace. I don't deserve it, but it is there if I believe.

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by tedquick

". . . . . I doubt it's going to reward me with eternal life if I'm good." I don't believe that either. As a Christian, I want my behaviors to be good behaviors, not because others may say they are good, but because they are simply the right thing to do. And there have been a few times when I actually accomplished that. Probably not nearly often enough but fortunately God has provided all of us with the opportunity for Grace. I don't deserve it, but it is there if I believe.

So, be good kids, otherwise Santa won't bring presents.
A great discussion on science's relationship to religious beliefs has turned to proselytizing.

[graciegirl]

I have read this thread and I have picked the people I like the most. Most of those have NOT commented on this thread but a few have shown amazing strength and patience in the face of being taunted about their beliefs.

This is all new to me. I have yet to live anywhere where people were disdained for their faith.

Part of our morality is based on trying to do good and avoiding bad. It keeps most of us law abiding. I always trust people with a moral compass more with my possessions and my feelings than I do people who look down on rule followers.

I have to think that these attacks, and that is what they are, by people who call church goers and believers in God ignorant and arrogant may be in part due to a tiny feeling somewhere that they could be wrong and they might be missing something. Or maybe they just don't care about anyone's feelings other than their own.

I don't know. But I know I feel much worse now knowing what I know about some of my fellow villagers.

The Atheists and Agnostics that I know and admire do not try to hurt or criticize people who think differently than they do.

[Walter123]

To each his own. I don't like or dislike anyone because of their religious beliefs.

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

So, be good kids, otherwise Santa won't bring presents.
A great discussion on science's relationship to religious beliefs has turned to proselytizing.

Sorry you missed my point.

See "Two more Frogs a comin'"

[Patty55]

As a recovered Cafeteria Catholic I like to keep my views to myself and think the world (and this board)would be a better place if more people did the same.

I do have a real question though, not being snarky but do you all actually quote these bible passages from memory or do you look them up each time? If it's from memory, color me impressed. (I thought I was doing great remembering SOHCAHTOA.)

Isn't there a religious forum on this board?

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by kstew43

One other thought. If this universe was created by a supreme being, who created the supreme being?

exactly......

....who came first the chicken or the egg.....[/QUOTE]

Some think the rooster!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Patty55

As a recovered Cafeteria Catholic I like to keep my views to myself and think the world (and this board)would be a better place if more people did the same.

I do have a real question though, not being snarky but do you all actually quote these bible passages from memory or do you look them up each time? If it's from memory, color me impressed. (I thought I was doing great remembering SOHCAHTOA.)

Isn't there a religious forum on this board?

Raised a German Lutheran and we didn't study the bible so much as we were told in Saturday Catechism class about what the books were about and were expected to memorize the books names in order, old and new testament, as a test before Confirmation. I can get through first and second Samuel and go blank nowadays. We were taught it as a kind of history and we knew what the main characters and the lesser characters did and were taught that the new testament kind of had more weight than the old. Other Protestant faiths study the Bible in a different way memorizing verses and literally applying them.

I was a Catholic convert at age 18 and really was surprised to find back then that the Catholic Church didn't study the Bible, as much as many Protestants I knew did, and Catholics are not taught to interpret the bible literally which agreed what I was taught as a child in Sunday School and in Catechism Class.

I get more Jeopardy questions on the Bible right than my "cradle Catholic" husband. But I am far from a scholar. To me it takes the wisdom of Solomon to figure it out.