[CFrance]

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Pompous is much too mild.
Someone who advocates withholding medical procedures from a patient who hasn't followed his "anointed" diet is beneath contempt.

It's certainly indicative of a lack of regard for humanity.

[tcxr750]

Does "tough love" include no more second trips to the buffet at Golden Corral or the Casino?

[Villager Joyce]

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Pompous is much too mild.
Someone who advocates withholding medical procedures from a patient who hasn't followed his "anointed" diet is beneath contempt.

He has never said this or implied this, but I find this mentality very frightening. is there an age when medical treatment is withheld because you don't have enough years left to justify the financial drain on society or whatever you have is incurable.Let me repeat, no one on this forum has suggesteD this.

[justjim]

There are many medical procedures that some believe are not necessary that could save millions of dollars. However, who is going to determine what procedure is necessary and what is not? Most think it should be YOUR DOCTOR and it would be difficult to argue different. For example, millions are spent to keep Cancer patients alive when there is little chance of recovery. Statistically this can be proven.

It's complicated with no easy answers IMHO and I might add---a very slippery slope.

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by Villager Joyce

He has never said this or implied this, but I find this mentality very frightening. is there an age when medical treatment is withheld because you don't have enough years left to justify the financial drain on society or whatever you have is incurable.Let me repeat, no one on this forum has suggesteD this.

Really?
From the opening post:
"I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices."

Just what is it that you think he is suggesting?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by justjim

As one who had five bypasses about five years ago, I wouldn't call this a useless medical procedure. I have two younger brothers and both had similar medical procedures. Of course, none have lived a perfect lifestyle but I can say all three of us were above the average.

VP, the Billionaire you reference, who is he/she. Could he/she be wrong?

Here's a link with the story:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-d...QDBHNlYwNzcg--

I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.

Could he be wrong? I suppose so.

I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?

Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.

Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?

[Villager Joyce]

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Really?
From the opening post:
"I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices."

Just what is it that you think he is suggesting?

You are correct. I guess I couldn't believe a human being would say such a thing so I couldnt see the words. That is exactly what he said and believes. Tough love my behind. Arrogant, pompous.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Challenger

I am 77- had heart triple by pass at 66.At the time was quite slim, ran 20mi plus a week, played golf, private pilot. did not drink alcohol , never smoked. My disease is hereditary. Would you proposing that I should have had a death sentence??

Hmmmmmmmmmmmn!

It has been 11 years since your bypass operation and you are doing well I hope. If it's genetic and beyond your control, how did you manage to survive for 11 years without your arteries clogging up again?

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

It has been 11 years since your bypass operation and you are doing well I hope. If it's genetic and beyond your control, how did you manage to survive for 11 years without your arteries clogging up again?

66-11=55. He has 55 more years before he'll need another bypass....

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Do you really think people will choose to die if heart bypass operations are no longer provided by Medicare? Currently, Medicare pays for Dr. Dean Ornish's lifestyle program to reverse coronary artery disease. They pay for it because it works. And the cost is only a small fraction of what it costs for bypass surgery. But it's not well known and it's not widely available across the U.S.

So this dr can open up a 100% occluded LAD. Instead of a bypass.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Here's a link with the story:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-d...QDBHNlYwNzcg--

I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.

Could he be wrong? I suppose so.

I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?

Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.

Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?

I believe justjim meant he had one operation which involved 5 coronary artery bypasses during that one surgical case.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Here's a link with the story:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-d...QDBHNlYwNzcg--

I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.

Could he be wrong? I suppose so.

I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?

Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.

Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?

Obviously it was one operation, five arteries bypassed. This is why sometimes your medical knowledge is questionable. If you are so widely read on health issues, you would have known this. What if you decided someone should die because he needed five bypass surgeries, when in fact he only needed one?

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

It has been 11 years since your bypass operation and you are doing well I hope. If it's genetic and beyond your control, how did you manage to survive for 11 years without your arteries clogging up again?

Statins - Toatal Cholesterol now under 120 LDL about 70. So far my Docs are positive about my good health. Let's hope they are correct. For another poster I am 77 not 66. Operation was 11 years ago. Blood pressure averages 115/ 80!! Non treatment would have been a death sentence. In fact I worked for 6 more years(CEO) and have served in assisting 6 charities including a medical mission(non religious) to Mexico.. I feel that I still have some good to offer.

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Here's a link with the story:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-d...QDBHNlYwNzcg--

I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.

Could he be wrong? I suppose so.

I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?

Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.

Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?

Bypass surgery has been reduced by 60% due to stents. Most doctors will not do a single bypass, that is a sit and wait, even if your IF sucks. If you have a four bypass with 80 % blockage! you won't have enough time to read this book. And believe it or not there are more reasons for open heart than a bad diet.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by dbussone

Here's a link to an interesting article about a genetic fault in an Italian family. Despite a high fat diet and high cholesterol, they have a specific gene that overcomes the effect of the cholesterol.
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-...artery-disease

If I'm not mistaken, that story is about 20 years old (10-17-94). I seem to remember when it first came out; it was very exciting news. I began to wonder if my family might have the same gene. My extended family (as I was growing up) was very large and I never heard of anyone having heart disease. Cancer, yes, but not heart disease.

I'm pretty sure I can eat all the meat, butter and eggs etc that I want without having to worry about heart disease. But what about cancer? According to research information from the China study, as well as other large scale studies, animal protein promotes cancer. And cancer is exactly what I have a family history of.

So, back to your story, what happened? If transferring this special gene was going to work, it should have worked by now.