[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Interesting things, tariffs, and there are many reasons for applying them.

China currently produces 80% of the World's solar panels, so of course it can make them cheaply - that is the whole point of mass production.

However, the USA imposed tariffs on them claiming that they were being sold "below cost".

If they are, surely the best way to get at that company (or country) is to buy as many of that product as possible? That way you, get them nice and cheap, and on every one you buy the company is losing money. It can't keep doing that for ever and will soon have to raise its prices to cover costs.

Many tariffs are imposed to protect local manufacturers. This is not the case for solar panels where the USA does not have the capacity to meet demand, and can sell all ot produces to people who want to buy USA-made products.

The major reason for imposing tariffs is to raise revenue for the Government (under the guise of doing what's best for the local manufacturers, of course).

If the panels are being made below cost the govt of China would be subsidizing them giving them an unfair advantage.

I do believe the tariff assuming people believe it will last for a long time will encourage manufacturers to make the items as they can now compete on price.

[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

If the panels are being made below cost the govt of China would be subsidizing them giving them an unfair advantage.

Agreed. So buying a load of them would adversely impact the Chinese government financially.

And it's not as if the US government doesn't subsidize certain industries here (or give them a break in other ways, such as not requiring them to abide by pollution laws).

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

If the panels are being made below cost the govt of China would be subsidizing them giving them an unfair advantage.

I do believe the tariff assuming people believe it will last for a long time will encourage manufacturers to make the items as they can now compete on price.

They will have other problems when the demand declines due to less taxpayer subsidies. The solar stocks plummeted on Wednesday.

[Normal]

It will be more like China drops its subsidies and tariffs, then the US backs off.

[bob47]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There are lots of things that people consume or purchase, that aren't made in the USA at all. And many of those things that ARE made in the USA, use components that are made in China.

Prices will be going up on just about everything other than LOCAL produce and meats. Why? Because trucks that deliver stuff to the supermarket are made with components that come from China.

In addition, the whole reason we all buy things from China instead of manufacturing here in the first place - is because no one here wants to work for the low wages needed to provide these products to us, for the same prices that we pay from Chinese imports. So we'll be looking at either a) a massive increase in prices for products newly-manufactured in the US to accommodate the pay, insurance, and other expenses involved in having American employees, or b) a massive drop in pay and massive increase in people who can no longer pay their bills.

It's just so myopic to assume that we'll be fine if we just buy from US manufacturers.

I agree with this analysis. I have no training in macro economics but logic tells me the a country with a high standard and cost of living cannot compete long term in a global economy with countries that have a low standard of living. It seems to me that eventually they will have to meet some place in the middle.

And I can't understand how some economists claim it's OK to keep increasing the national debt. Doesn't the debt have to go away at some point, maybe by inflation, maybe devaluing the currency, or some other approach?

[Number 10 GI]

In 2008, Hemlock Semiconductor based in Michigan picked Clarksville, TN as the location for a new, $1.2 Billion polycrystalline silicon manufacturing plant. The local university established a course of instruction to educate employees for employment in this industry. In 2014, Hemlock announced they were closing the plant because they couldn't compete with cheaper imports from China. The plant never produced 1 ounce of silicon. Hundreds of jobs were lost. Equipment was sold off as scrap metal. Millions of dollars of public money was lost. People want cheap products and buy foreign made but then complain about low wages and no job opportunities.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

In 2008, Hemlock Semiconductor based in Michigan picked Clarksville, TN as the location for a new, $1.2 Billion polycrystalline silicon manufacturing plant. The local university established a course of instruction to educate employees for employment in this industry. In 2014, Hemlock announced they were closing the plant because they couldn't compete with cheaper imports from China. The plant never produced 1 ounce of silicon. Hundreds of jobs were lost. Equipment was sold off as scrap metal. Millions of dollars of public money was lost. People want cheap products and buy foreign made but then complain about low wages and no job opportunities.

Could also be other reasons. Taiwan Semi is having trouble staffing their new Arizona plant because they claim that Americans are much lazier than native employees.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Caymus

Could also be other reasons. Taiwan Semi is having trouble staffing their new Arizona plant because they claim that Americans are much lazier than native employees.

My grandson worked for a brief spell in a Japanese owned auto parts plant in Tennessee. He was new and still trying to get into the groove of working an assembly line. He accidentally dropped a part and when a part was dropped it had to be discarded. A Japanese manager got into his face almost nose to nose and was screaming, at the top of his voice, at him because he dropped the part. Who wants to work under those circumstances. Based on my research and conversations with people who have worked in Asian owned companies with Asian national supervisors, this is typical management style.

The plant in Tennessee had over 400 employees setting up operations in preparation for manufacturing silicon. There was a waiting list of a few thousand people wanting to work for this company. There was no problem with lazy employees.

Hankook Tire has a plant in Clarksville also with over 1,600 employees and there have been no reports of lazy employees. LG, a Korean electronic products manufacturer, has a plant there also with hundreds of employees, no complaints of lazy employees. Nissan has a huge automobile assembly plant in Smyrna, TN employing hundreds of workers. Nissan has no problem retaining people or hiring new employees. My life experiences have shown me that when employees are paid a good wage with good benefits and treated with respect will work hard at their job. Lazy employees is too often a convenient excuse for poor management and poor treatment of the workers.

[Sandy and Ed]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

Very true but it could also cause goods made in the US or in the Americas to appear more competitively priced. I have some mixed feelings about tariffs but recall many years ago that the excise taxes on Japanese electronics goods made me look at USA alternatives since price after tax was comparable. Those tariffs would also be going into our coffers, hopefully to benefit our society, and not to bolster China economy and infrastructure

[Marine1974]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Will be interesting to see if there is a surge in imports from China in the next two months, with the likelihood of increased tariffs after that.

A bike tire I ordered on-line two weeks ago was sourced direct from China and arrived yesterday, and I suspect WalMart will have a larger number than usual of huge container ships heading our way.

Tariffs and decreasing the corporate tax to 15% tax on corporations in the US is a great thing for American manufacturing jobs . John Deere was going to move manufacturing to Mexico but now are staying here in the USA . Prices will come down on products manufactured in the US due to the lower tax .

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by Sandy and Ed

Very true but it could also cause goods made in the US or in the Americas to appear more competitively priced. I have some mixed feelings about tariffs but recall many years ago that the excise taxes on Japanese electronics goods made me look at USA alternatives since price after tax was comparable. Those tariffs would also be going into our coffers, hopefully to benefit our society, and not to bolster China economy and infrastructure

Tariffs are paid by importers, then passed onto customers as price rises.
No good ever came from world tariff wars.

[retiredguy123]

U.S. manufacturers can't compete with China because of Government regulations and controls. So, the answer is to impose Government regulations and controls, including tariffs, against China. It doesn't make sense to me.

[midiwiz]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

Which is why we don't ever shop at Wally world. You also forgot Amazon which should be located in China......

As for price rises, not necessarily. You're missing the chain in that statement, a typical assumption is all that is.

[maistocars]

We need a balance of trade - they tax our goods and we need to do the same to them otherwise we are competing at a disadvantage. It's the right thing to do.

[Haggar]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Tariffs or not, goods from China will be with us still, for a very long time.
Tariffs are just price rises for the customer.

Steve Madden Shoes imports 70% of their shoes from China. They announced yesterday they would be moving 1/2 of their production in China to other countries - Vietnam, Cambodia, Brazil, etc. to avoid high tariffs on Chinese imports.

Not one new job in the US!

If anyone in government thinks that raising tariffs is going to increase manufacturing in the US or going to increase employment in the US or lower costs to consumers .....