[PugMom]

Originally Posted by Justus

This is only the beginning, and the Globalist dream for the United States and the rest of the free world. So many have blindly accepted domination via the Covid scare. It's like cooking the frog...put the frog in a pot of cold water and he is unaware of the increased heat until it's too late, the water is boiling and he is cooked.

that is the very same thing my close Canadians pals think. they came to me with this idea, & news articles referring to it, wanting to know if 'we' in the US think the same. idk what to think anymore

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Mrprez

Yes. Do you think doctors actually receive training in this stuff? Do you think doctors have time to do the required reading and research to get up to speed? Your doctor is not an expert on pandemics and infectious diseases.

Yes, yes, and no
We all had courses in virology and epidemiology in medical school, and dealt with plenty of infections in residency. In many ways seasonal flu is a mini pandemic. And we all had to read and “get up to speed “, with continuing medical education requirements and board recertification. Please have just a little knowledge before you spout off on something you know nothing about

[Justus]

Originally Posted by PugMom

that is the very same thing my close Canadians pals think. they came to me with this idea, & news articles referring to it, wanting to know if 'we' in the US think the same. idk what to think anymore

Never in my years on this earth have I seen any socially divisive campaign so organized as Covid. Americans dealt with poliomyelitis, scarlet fever, diphtheria, rubella, Asian flu, swine flu, measles, mumps, bird flu, h1n1, AIDS, and on and on. Some of these were uniformly fatal to their victims. In no case were there mask mandates, global quarantines, social distancing, government interference in domestic behavior. In each and every disease, we either reached herd immunity or relied on the brilliance of the medical community to find a way to the end of the epidemic.

The word "pandemic" refers only to an epidemic that is spread over a larger area. That makes the numbers bigger and more difficult to verify. Each country, if given the opportunity, could have probably independently averted the panic situation in which we find ourselves today. The illogical and hysterical response has made many individuals willing to relinquish basic freedoms. Therein lies the vulnerability to domination by globalist factions.

Many, many thousands of doctors and medical researchers throughout the world oppose the masks and lockdowns, but are ignored by media entities or otherwise silenced....silenced, meaning fired from their jobs or professionally discredited. This censorship has prevented any possibility of herd immunity. The social and economic damages as a result of this are incalculable.

[donassaid]

The virus is not a hoax but the response to it certainly is. Without contributing conditions like high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, COPD or other respiratory issues, the death rate from Covid 19 is a very small fraction of tge quoted 260,000. And the so called scientists response to it has been all over the place. Masks don't help, only medical personnel need to wear them, masks DO work and everyone should wear them, masks only protect others, not the wearers, now masks protect the wearer and are more effective than a vaccine. And yet, this "planned demic" is all blamed on President Trump. There are still calls for locking down our whole country for up to 6 weeks and a national mask mandate in spite of the fact that, according to the CDC, 84% of those who tested positive, wear a mask most, if not all the time. When the government comes like Nazi Germany, to put us into railcars, it is not hard to figure out who will be the first ones to hop on voluntarily.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Girlcopper

Oh my God! Now its insinuated we cant believe our drs because their expertise isnt pandemics?? Are you serious?

To be honest, I would prefer to head advice from experts such as epidemiologists and infectious disease doctors. Advice from these experts is easily obtained. Many of them have been interviewed on TV.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by gatorbill1

Watch ALL of the TV stations, not just one or two and get the full story and then make your decision on what to do

This is what I always do to get a balanced view of current events and news.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Justus

Never in my years on this earth have I seen any socially divisive campaign so organized as Covid. Americans dealt with poliomyelitis, scarlet fever, diphtheria, rubella, Asian flu, swine flu, measles, mumps, bird flu, h1n1, AIDS, and on and on. Some of these were uniformly fatal to their victims. In no case were there mask mandates, global quarantines, social distancing, government interference in domestic behavior. In each and every disease, we either reached herd immunity or relied on the brilliance of the medical community to find a way to the end of the epidemic.

The word "pandemic" refers only to an epidemic that is spread over a larger area. That makes the numbers bigger and more difficult to verify. Each country, if given the opportunity, could have probably independently averted the panic situation in which we find ourselves today. The illogical and hysterical response has made many individuals willing to relinquish basic freedoms. Therein lies the vulnerability to domination by globalist factions.

Many, many thousands of doctors and medical researchers throughout the world oppose the masks and lockdowns, but are ignored by media entities or otherwise silenced....silenced, meaning fired from their jobs or professionally discredited. This censorship has prevented any possibility of herd immunity. The social and economic damages as a result of this are incalculable.

I'm grateful for the censorship. If natural herd immunity were to be the preferred method to deal with this pandemic, there would be many more casualties to deal with; not to mention the exhaustion of hospital beds. That scenario is scary as hell.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Justus

Never in my years on this earth have I seen any socially divisive campaign so organized as Covid. Americans dealt with poliomyelitis, scarlet fever, diphtheria, rubella, Asian flu, swine flu, measles, mumps, bird flu, h1n1, AIDS, and on and on. Some of these were uniformly fatal to their victims. In no case were there mask mandates, global quarantines, social distancing, government interference in domestic behavior. In each and every disease, we either reached herd immunity or relied on the brilliance of the medical community to find a way to the end of the epidemic.

The word "pandemic" refers only to an epidemic that is spread over a larger area. That makes the numbers bigger and more difficult to verify. Each country, if given the opportunity, could have probably independently averted the panic situation in which we find ourselves today. The illogical and hysterical response has made many individuals willing to relinquish basic freedoms. Therein lies the vulnerability to domination by globalist factions.

Many, many thousands of doctors and medical researchers throughout the world oppose the masks and lockdowns, but are ignored by media entities or otherwise silenced....silenced, meaning fired from their jobs or professionally discredited. This censorship has prevented any possibility of herd immunity. The social and economic damages as a result of this are incalculable.

Thank you!!
I totally agree.

[Mrprez]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Yes, yes, and no
We all had courses in virology and epidemiology in medical school, and dealt with plenty of infections in residency. In many ways seasonal flu is a mini pandemic. And we all had to read and “get up to speed “, with continuing medical education requirements and board recertification. Please have just a little knowledge before you spout off on something you know nothing about

Maybe most doctors had some training in this stuff way back in school, how many have kept up over the years? I will continue to seek advice in these areas from experts, not a doctor who read up on something last week. You might be the exception rather than the rule.

[ohiosbestus]

I will not mention names but here is my thoughts:

Mostly the virus kills many older people near social security age or people on social security.
Secondly, since our medical community has advanced significantly, people are living a lot longer than expected with social security than expected.
Third, our social security system is running out of money to support us because money has been removed from the social security system to support other agendas.
Now this may be the reason that more stringent rules were not put in place in the beginning.
Decide for yourself.

[Byte1]

Just because someone does not agree with you regarding the allowing the Gov. to control your activities---LIFE, does not equate to any of us believing the virus is a "hoax." That is equivalent to saying that if we did not agree with the last administration's view on policies that we would be "RACIST." Please tone it down to a believable discussion.

So, instead of mandating that EVERYONE suffer by mandating this and that, just because a few are infected, lets try a different approach. Let's try an ultra control approach that will satisfy all our NEEDY and DEPENDENT folks that want the gov. to run their lives. How about we demand that the gov quarantine ALL Americans age 60years and over until this virus is under control. The Gov. should round up all seniors and put them in some of the Stadiums and Convention Centers with a guard on them so they don't "accidentally" wander off on their own. That should satisfy ALL the NEEDY folks that want the Gov to run their lives for them.
Yes, that is just me being facetious. However, that is hardly different from all of you that feel the Gov needs to tell you to protect yourselves. Do what you believe is right for you and leave everyone else alone. You are NOT going to become infected if you avoid everyone else you feel threatened by. Although, they are saying that most folks are infected in their own homes, so I guess you had better wear your PPE at home too.
This is no "hoax" but it is not our leaders' faults either. They have been trying everything they can, short of demanding everyone stay in their homes with the threat of shooting them if they violate the quarantine.
And be political if you wish, but I am impressed at how fast this leadership has pushed the private industry to work with the gov toward a vaccine and toward medicines to fight the infected ones. Only an outsider could come into the D.C. establishment and cut through all the red tape to get things done.
The virus is not a "hoax" and there is no need for the gov to overstep it's authority and mandate attire. Do not even compare a mask mandate with seatbelts or motorcycle helmets (which I also believe is overstepping their authority). Do not attempt to use the "science" argument with me because it seems that every so-called "scientist" in the world has a different slant on how the pandemic should be handled. Science also proves that aborted babies are living beings, but there will always be those that attempt to insist that they are not living. Science also told us that butter was bad and now it is better for us than margarine. Eggs were bad and now they are good. So, using the repetitious "science" argument in an attempt to prove your point is meaningless, because anyone can manipulate stats.

Sorry if I do not take anyone's statement about how many folks are dead in the U.S. due to the virus, until I can compare the totality of deaths this year with the number last year and the year before. If they are not excessively higher, then there is a problem with how the numbers were counted. And we know how numbers can be counted differently every two and four years. I do not propose that one should be careless, but I do propose that you allow us that wish to enjoy our Thanksgiving celebration, do so without imposed mandates tailored only to your opinions and demands.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by ohiosbestus

I will not mention names but here is my thoughts:

Mostly the virus kills many older people near social security age or people on social security.
Secondly, since our medical community has advanced significantly, people are living a lot longer than expected with social security than expected.
Third, our social security system is running out of money to support us because money has been removed from the social security system to support other agendas.
Now this may be the reason that more stringent rules were not put in place in the beginning.
Decide for yourself.

Naw, if the Gov was attempting to rid the country of old folks to save Social Security, it would have concentrated on the Villages first. Besides, most of your so-called leaders in Congress and elsewhere in the Federal Gov. getting rich off of the taxpayers, are "OLD" people, so they would have to consider that also.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by skarra

I think it may be too late - states like Rhode Island have run out of hospital capacity and they're now moving people to field "overflow" facilities. Rhode Island'''s Hospital Reach Coronavirus Capacity | Patch

If only we had taken this thing seriously from the beginning Far too many people think it's all a hoax.

I honestly don't think the majority of the people anywhere, here included, think it is a hoax at all. However, the seeming inability for our political "leaders" of either party and the posturing of our medical "experts", presents a unified picture of " frankly WE don't know what the heck this really is and certainly don't know what to do that would work to keep the spread down. Certainly the "mask" thing is not working, at least not using the type of "mask" the public has access to, and the fashion statements masks for the holidays, favorite teams, etc. Personally I think there is something in personal contact we don't know yet, and possibly links to politically unacceptable topics (weight ? ethnicity ?, gender ? ) Certainly the hypocritical words AND actions of the "powerful", the belittling of "common folks" who also want to have a holiday with friends and relatives, or eat in a nice restaurant, all the while carrying on their own lives as they please, having hair done, going to activities without "masking", traveling, eating, entertaining..... it just may be getting close to the boiling point of "good for ME but it's NOT FOR THEE" behaviors presently passing as "leadership skills" in both polical parties !

[Trayderjoe]

Fear is such a powerful tool, especially in the hands of those who wield it for their agenda. Again, mortality rate of Covid is very low and the identified pathways of transmission have been narrowed considerably since the pandemic started. This is not the first pandemic we have seen, the H1N1 flu was identified as a global pandemic by the WHO in early 2009, the US finally "recognized" the pandemic 6 months later. In one year, the CDC estimated that there were 60.8 million cases of H1N1 in the US alone.

How many have heard that sometimes the cure is worse than the disease? The problem with lockdowns (segregation), which by the way, the WHO now claims are bad in response to the Covid pandemic, is that the main factor being considered is reducing the transmission rate of a virus. A virus by the way, that is not as deadly as the fearmongers have made it out to be. Make no mistake, Covid is not a hoax, but it is not as deadly as a hemorrhagic fever. When you look at the whole, lockdowns (segregation) impact people on multiple socio-economic levels, such as mental health, that aren't weighed in when lockdowns are enacted. Note that the CDC shielding approach identified mental health issues that would need to be considered with segregation, yet I don't recall there being readily available mental health professionals to help those in crisis-heck, we can't even deal with the pre-Covid suicide rate when things were "normal".

So in order to temporarily reduce transmission of Covid, businesses are lost, jobs are lost, people can't provide for their families and there is a severe negative impact to children during critical development years. Consider that Europe has more severe lockdowns and yet are experiencing more outbreaks, which alone should be evidence that the ancillary impacts of lockdowns are not worth the price of lockdowns. Yet still there are those who insist on lockdowns, and most of the supporters of lockdowns don't have to worry about their jobs or income being impacted.

I wonder if there was a mandate that those who decide to lockdown must lose their jobs (with no guarantees they would get their jobs back) and no income until the lockdowns end, would those same people (and this includes people not in politics such as the news media) continue to support their position?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Mrprez

Maybe most doctors had some training in this stuff way back in school, how many have kept up over the years? I will continue to seek advice in these areas from experts, not a doctor who read up on something last week. You might be the exception rather than the rule.

Again, what’s your medical education experience that leads you to these conclusions?