[slipcovers]

Originally Posted by tucson

I see....I never saw that "type" of poverty growing up in N.E. We had poverty there as well but not the kind you're describing. I CAN understand that on this level these people do need help and education to get OUT of extreme poverty.

Excuse me, unless you live under a rock, there is plentyof that type of poverty in New England, just like Florida.
Trailers with tarps on the roofs...houses that are ready to fall in...3rd world conditions. Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine being the worst, I don't know how they survive, especially the Winters. 60 minutes did a show 2 weeks ago on" disability" in West Virginia, half the county was on disability. Why?...The government allowed there jobs to be sent overseas...there unemployment ran out ...so that is basically what happens when all the factory jobs disappear. You say "clean houses,pick blueberries" just who is going to hire you?...other impoverished people? Blueberrie picking is 2 weeks, about $2 hour, if that. Children have no control over what circumstances they were born into, and should be given the "tools" to become a stable adult.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Rags123

Just curious and not trying to be ornery !!! Can you please link or post something about WHERE and WHO you are hearing about ALL poor as lazy ?

I have never seen that comment or anything even close.

Most I see is STATISTICS on the increase in welfare FRAUD !!!

PS...I have done some research on this and can tell you I have WITNESSED AND SEEN the soliciting of people in downtown Tampa to attend "classes" on how to work the system...not just welfare but all of the system. I never heard anyone say that ALL poor or even a percentage were lazy however and am just curious how this came to be

It wasn't a link. It was statements made by many on this forum presently and in the past. And just because you have seen this soliciting doesn't make it right to apply a blanket opinion of all poor people. I have seen just as many trying to do the right thing.

[tucson]

Originally Posted by slipcovers

Excuse me, unless you live under a rock, there is plentyof that type of poverty in New England, just like Florida.
Trailers with tarps on the roofs...houses that are ready to fall in...3rd world conditions. Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine being the worst, I don't know how they survive, especially the Winters. 60 minutes did a show 2 weeks ago on" disability" in West Virginia, half the county was on disability. Why?...The government allowed there jobs to be sent overseas...there unemployment ran out ...so that is basically what happens when all the factory jobs disappear. You say "clean houses,pick blueberries" just who is going to hire you?...other impoverished people? Blueberrie picking is 2 weeks, about $2 hour, if that. Children have no control over what circumstances they were born into, and should be given the "tools" to become a stable adult.

Please do NOT misquote what I've written. I said I did that I picked blueberries when I was 13 during the summer school vacation time in the 60's when I was young to help my parents. I do not live under a rock,my friend. I know there are very poor in NE in the woods in NH, VT & ME. I lived near Boston where there were a lot of jobs.Yes, I KNOW about children born into negative circumstances, as I WAS one of them. The tools are education. There are people who were homeless that are now millionaires, so it CAN be done. Praise the Lord who gives us the ability to do so. :-)

http://www.businessinsider.com/forme...us-2012-6?op=1

[senior citizen]

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[senior citizen]

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[Rags123]

Originally Posted by CFrance

It wasn't a link. It was statements made by many on this forum presently and in the past. And just because you have seen this soliciting doesn't make it right to apply a blanket opinion of all poor people. I have seen just as many trying to do the right thing.

I have never read a post like that and anyone who posted something so insane is simply ill informed and obviously needs a monitor on what they say or type.

Now as to your comments addressed to me......I never applied any blanket opinion of poor people so you have me mixed up with someone else.

I do not like the personal stories which I think are so self serving, but to make my point here. I was brought up the son of a steelworker in W. Pa. We always had bread on the table; were not rich by any stretch, but I was taught at an early age to have feelings for and be aware of those worse off than I. I have done that my entire life...both financially and with my time (most financially as I have aged) I tell you only to put into context this statement...

The treatment of the poor has become a p,,,,,,,l issue and that will hurt them in the long run. In the last 2 months, I was told......AFTER, AND ONLY AFTER a new acquaintance found out my political leaning.....that I, and my "ilk".....ILK was his word, not mine.....need to be more open to the poor. Now here is how he found my political leanings....we were discussing the needy sitting in Panera, and I said that the entire welfare system needs strong revision. THAT comment set him off...he never asked me what revision I spoke of....he then asked me about my politics and went off on me how I and my "ilk" were unfeeling.

I simply got up and left....I do not know what this man does or does not do for the needy, but he immediately made it political and that instant was not the first time I have heard it.

I am sorry for this long post, and am sorry for asking you the question but I am a bit tired of all the generalizations being made about so many things. Because I think there are strong revisions needed does not make me someone who is not giving and sympathetic. Fact is, the Tampa experience happened to me WHILE I WAS OUT WORKING AT NIGHT ON MY OWN TIME WITH THE POOR.

Today, you cannot discuss welfare fraud, etc without the name calling and I simply wanted to call to your attention that there are wonderful, giving, very sympathetic people who feel the system needs work. And I have NEVER heard anyone say what you were saying in my entire life, and trust me I grew up where a crass comment like that would not surprise me. I have seen headlines in p.......l blogs, etc. CLAIMING that but when you read it was never said.

I just wanted to make sure where you were coming from since you have said that a few times and I just do not buy into it.

I have said my peace on this now and you know how I feel. I posted in this thread how giving Villagers are..both financially and time, including the developer and his family and just wanted to clarify that generalities on both sides upset me quite a bit. There are poor and needy everywhere you go. You can either close your eyes or keep them open and help, but to ignore both the needy or those things that need fixed is wrong.

Thanks for allowing me to comment

[senior citizen]

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[KathieI]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Thanks. You've given me an idea. I will find out where the nearest Dress for Success is located. If nothing else, the clothing could be mailed to them.

There is one in Orlando and another in Tampa and I'm planning a trip there to drop off many items very soon. The process of cleaning closets to move always brings out the stuff in the back of the closet that you will never use again and I think its a shame not to donate to some young people who may need business attire to start out in their careers. I tried to work with consignment shops but they have little interest in business attire, so Dress for Success is the perfect place for them.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Rags123

I have never read a post like that and anyone who posted something so insane is simply ill informed and obviously needs a monitor on what they say or type.

Now as to your comments addressed to me......I never applied any blanket opinion of poor people so you have me mixed up with someone else.

I do not like the personal stories which I think are so self serving, but to make my point here. I was brought up the son of a steelworker in W. Pa. We always had bread on the table; were not rich by any stretch, but I was taught at an early age to have feelings for and be aware of those worse off than I. I have done that my entire life...both financially and with my time (most financially as I have aged) I tell you only to put into context this statement...

The treatment of the poor has become a p,,,,,,,l issue and that will hurt them in the long run. In the last 2 months, I was told......AFTER, AND ONLY AFTER a new acquaintance found out my political leaning.....that I, and my "ilk".....ILK was his word, not mine.....need to be more open to the poor. Now here is how he found my political leanings....we were discussing the needy sitting in Panera, and I said that the entire welfare system needs strong revision. THAT comment set him off...he never asked me what revision I spoke of....he then asked me about my politics and went off on me how I and my "ilk" were unfeeling.

I simply got up and left....I do not know what this man does or does not do for the needy, but he immediately made it political and that instant was not the first time I have heard it.

I am sorry for this long post, and am sorry for asking you the question but I am a bit tired of all the generalizations being made about so many things. Because I think there are strong revisions needed does not make me someone who is not giving and sympathetic. Fact is, the Tampa experience happened to me WHILE I WAS OUT WORKING AT NIGHT ON MY OWN TIME WITH THE POOR.

Today, you cannot discuss welfare fraud, etc without the name calling and I simply wanted to call to your attention that there are wonderful, giving, very sympathetic people who feel the system needs work. And I have NEVER heard anyone say what you were saying in my entire life, and trust me I grew up where a crass comment like that would not surprise me. I have seen headlines in p.......l blogs, etc. CLAIMING that but when you read it was never said.

I just wanted to make sure where you were coming from since you have said that a few times and I just do not buy into it.

I have said my peace on this now and you know how I feel. I posted in this thread how giving Villagers are..both financially and time, including the developer and his family and just wanted to clarify that generalities on both sides upset me quite a bit. There are poor and needy everywhere you go. You can either close your eyes or keep them open and help, but to ignore both the needy or those things that need fixed is wrong.

Thanks for allowing me to comment

You're welcome. But I stand by my statement that many times on here the poor have been either accused of being lazy or the statement has been made that any poor person could pull himself up out of poverty if he would only work hard enough. And that is what I object to. Even in this thread alone, see posts 31 and 36, and the suggestion of post 41.

There is such a thing as generational poverty. And I do not believe that the majority of the poor are gaming the system.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by CFrance

You're welcome. But I stand by my statement that many times on here the poor have been either accused of being lazy or the statement has been made that any poor person could pull himself up out of poverty if he would only work hard enough. And that is what I object to. Even in this thread alone, see posts 31 and 36, and the suggestion of post 41.

There is such a thing as generational poverty. And I do not believe that the majority of the poor are gaming the system.

Allow me to bore you a bit. You mention generational poverty and there is a study done at Yale which concludes on generational poverty....

"In summary, these points are made from this chapter:
∗
Education is key in getting out and
staying out of generational poverty
∗
Being in poverty is rarely about
a lack of intelligence or ability
∗
Individuals stay in poverty because t
hey do not see "choice", or if they
do, they do not know how to access proper resources or people to get
them to the point of actually
"choosing" to organize themselves,
complete assignments, behave respectfully, plan for the future, and
communicate in conventional register.
∗
Schools are really the only places
where students can learn about the
choices and rules of the middle class or have access to people who
are willing and able to help them."


http://www.yale.edu/21c/arkansas/pdf/payne_ch4.pdf

On the thread concerning INCOME EQUALITY there is a discussion on "redistribution of wealth" which I oppose on so many levels, but as you mention here...it is either the poor do not want to work, OR the rich are keeping them down.

In that thread on raising the minimum wage and redistributing the wealth, I tried with no success to make the point that instead of bashing the rich, maligning the poor, why are we not addressing the real problem....education.

This link which I left there and doubt anyone read makes a valid and current point that unemployment and education are tied together intrinsically.


"Indeed, the unemployment rate confirms that, tracking almost exactly to education. Those without a high school degree, for example, had an 11 percent unemployment rate in 2013. Those with BAs, meanwhile, had just a 4 percent unemployment rate."

The real reason for income inequality - Opinion - The Boston Globe

"The upshot: If you don’t have skills, it’s tough to find work."

In addition, I linked to the below......AND THIS IS FROM TODAYS NEWS although you would be hard pressed to find it.

"Senators have introduced two bills in the past few weeks that could make make it easier for students to pay for college and manage debt. Both bills would trim red tape from some frustrating features of the federal financial aid system. And both bills are bipartisan, with heavyweight Republican sponsors and interest from the House of Representatives.

It might seem like this could add up to something rare — real lawmaking! But don't get too excited. As much as members of Congress love to talk about helping students pay for college, these proposals are likely to get stuck, like everything else, in Congressional dysfunction, partisanship, and protocol.

That's even though the legislation is trying to solve what almost everyone agrees is a problem: the system of federal grants and loans for college is far too complicated."



Why two bipartisan bills to make college affordable are going nowhere in Congress - Vox

Perhaps to validate your point....it seems that most simply want to ridicule either the rich or the poor instead of really trying to solve the problem.

IN my simple mind, the only contrary opinion to this would be those who do not want to work to get a future and I agree with you, it only applies to the minority.

It, to me anyway, gets very old (to me anyway) hearing that the only way to solve this is to take money from people who earned it and give it away.

[Rags123]

ll leave you folks alone but I am frankly a bit tired of the conversations on sharing the wealth and redistributing it around a bit, BY MAKING LAWS, etc.

How about the old fashioned way of showing folks how to do it them selves.....getting educated.

Besides what I said in the post above...this is current news but not so you would ever see it. It has no po.....al value thus it is ignored..

Panel: Improving rural education is key to helping poor communities - Post and Courier

and how it (education) actually improves health....

How A Good Education Can Actually Improve Poor Students

I just do not think it is asking so much for folks to work toward an education to break the poverty cycle, or too much to ask of our politicians to enable them.

[slipcovers]

Originally Posted by Rags123

ll leave you folks alone but I am frankly a bit tired of the conversations on sharing the wealth and redistributing it around a bit, BY MAKING LAWS, etc.

How about the old fashioned way of showing folks how to do it them selves.....getting educated.

Besides what I said in the post above...this is current news but not so you would ever see it. It has no po.....al value thus it is ignored..

Panel: Improving rural education is key to helping poor communities - Post and Courier

and how it (education) actually improves health....

How A Good Education Can Actually Improve Poor Students

I just do not think it is asking so much for folks to work toward an education to break the poverty cycle, or too much to ask of our politicians to enable them.

Are you going to volunteer? Contact Kitty, she has all the info. Thanks in advance.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by slipcovers

Are you going to volunteer? Contact Kitty, she has all the info. Thanks in advance.

Not sure if you are simply being a wise guy and even though I have no obligation to you, despite your sarcasm, to justify anything.

As the spouse of a lady who taught elementary school for 32 years and spent 3 years back in the early 2000's as a tutor in Wildwood, and I, as someone who has spent his entire life with volunteer work from Boys Club to working on the streets with young folks, I feel as if I am entitled to my opinion.

I assume from this kind of posting that the opinion here is to continue with the hate the rich, condemn the poor and offer no suggestions except for the sarcasm. Perhaps this is what folks here thrive on !!

[buggyone]

Education certainly is a game changer to ending poverty. College, however, is not for everyone but technical training is sometimes better for a lot of people. Government grants or low interest loans should be available to all who NEED them to further education.

No one should be talking of "redistribution of wealth" as an idea and no one has except in p......al ads.

Of course, everyone has the right to their opinion on this forum and it is not right to play down another's opinion. Look up quotes from John Stuart Mill for some good reasoning.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Education certainly is a game changer to ending poverty. College, however, is not for everyone but technical training is sometimes better for a lot of people. Government grants or low interest loans should be available to all who NEED them to further education.

No one should be talking of "redistribution of wealth" as an idea and no one has except in p......al ads.

Of course, everyone has the right to their opinion on this forum and it is not right to play down another's opinion. Look up quotes from John Stuart Mill for some good reasoning.

Of course technical training is part of education and that is understood. And when you see the statistics on education and lack of work you wonder why it is not taken seriously

As to redistribution of wealth it surely is being discussed but whatever.

I thought opinions were welcome also and offered mine...guess it is required to volunteer somewhere to fulfill some need in order for it to be read and responded to with any intelligence. Back to name calling and generalization to satisfy ones own..whatever