[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That is political propaganda horsepucky. There are many states that provide mail-in ballots (including Florida), with very little actual fraud going on. The percentage of actual fraud (as opposed to assumed, alleged, accused, or supposed) is not even statistically significant.

With the singular exception of manipulation in North Carolina, during a single election, this just flat out isn't a "thing."

The only people who are fighting against it, are people who have a lot to lose if ALL citizens have better access to casting a vote. They are against it because they are afraid that if more people vote - more people will vote against them. And they would probably be correct.

But it's fear that keeps the votes out of peoples' hands, not fraud.

You mean fear such as having the new black panthers hanging out just outside polling places?

But you are right in a way, dead people have no fear, and they vote early and often, 99.9% for one party.

Oh yeah, there's no election fraud

The woman in Ohio who voted 7 times had no fear either, and she worked for the election board.

Oh yeah, there's no election fraud.

I strongly support in person voting and voter ID. An election should be won at the ballot box, not by the candidate that generates the most fraud. This isn't Venezuela

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Marvic 1

Mail in voting for everyone has been pushed by the Left-Wing for many years not just this election year because of Coronavirus.
Judicial Watch found that their were over 1,000,000 fraud mail in votes just in California alone..

I eagerly await your posting of a link showing that Judicial Watch found one million fraud mail in votes in California [hint you are wrong, totally wrong]

I'd also like you reveal who all those left wingers are in Utah and North Dakota who were able to force those GOP controlled states to adopt vote by mail. I'm still awaiting your actual idea as to what should be done to making voting safe in a Covid environment. If you reject vote by mail, and you'd better change Florida law if you fear it is too risky, what do you support? More voting days to spread out the number of people at the polls? Vote by internet? Longer hours? More voting sites? Outdoor voting sites? Giving everyone PPE as they get to a voting site? What do you want people to do?

Or is it just, if you're too scaredy cat to vote with Covid then stay home and accept the decision of those more courageous or foolish. What is your plan, if any?

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by blueash

I made a mistake. It happens. I only mentioned Oregon has having elections by mail. I failed to include
Washington state, Colorado, Utah, and Hawaii do the same. All by mail.
California does it in some counties including LA county
1/2 the counties of North Dakota are vote by mail

I am aware that one political party screams a lot about fraud. And there certainly is a potential for someone to hijack an envelope and fill in the form for the legitimate voter, then either forge a signature or compel the voter to sign the outside. Evidence please?

I only know of one example of significant potential fraud. It was in 2018 in North Carolina where operatives of the GOP did exactly that and an entire election was thrown out by the court.

The argument of potential fraud is important. The evidence of it being a problem is almost nil. In 2016, the last POTUS election, about 25% of all votes cast were by mail. Please find me reports of fraudulent mail in ballots. I don't deny it may happen. What I deny is that is must be happening and that mail in voting is inherently dangerous to democracy. All those states would disagree. They include states run by the GOP.

So all you nay-sayers.. you'd rather risk lots of exposure to Covid and a new major outbreak with a new economic shut down instead of planning an alternative approach to conducting our elections IF Covid is an ongoing problem in August and November?


Apparently Florida's county election supervisors most of whom are GOP also believe something needs to be planned. If you out of hand reject mail in ballots, and I trust none of you vote by mail, what if anything should the state be doing now to plan for the possibility of having Covid still here at the next election period?

Never voted by mail and never will.

[GoodLife]

Never let a crisis go to waste

Hey let's change voting laws because coronavirus!!!

I'd be very careful accepting voting law advice from random internet posters who may have an agenda.

Anybody here have a Doctorate in Voteology or forgery?

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That is political propaganda horsepucky. There are many states that provide mail-in ballots (including Florida), with very little actual fraud going on. The percentage of actual fraud (as opposed to assumed, alleged, accused, or supposed) is not even statistically significant.

With the singular exception of manipulation in North Carolina, during a single election, this just flat out isn't a "thing."

The only people who are fighting against it, are people who have a lot to lose if ALL citizens have better access to casting a vote. They are against it because they are afraid that if more people vote - more people will vote against them. And they would probably be correct.

But it's fear that keeps the votes out of peoples' hands, not fraud.

I call “bull” on that. Every CITIZEN has the right and the responsibility to vote. The more that vote, the better. We are dreadfully apathetic as a nation when it comes to voting. Those that don’t vote now are not going to vote in the mail either. Show your ID and vote as you wish.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Another issue with forcing people to actually be physically present to vote:

People who are citizens of the country, stationed overseas for their jobs, or whose jobs have them out of the country that month (such as international business moguls and their entire staff, including bodyguards, secretaries, clerks, scheduling secretaries, wardrobe coordinators, public relations directors, directors of photography, etc. etc. etc.).

Also low-income people who live in rural areas with no mass transit, and no way to GET to the polls, if they are more than a few miles away (since they would otherwise walk, or ride a bicycle, or ride a tractor).

There's the additional problem with volume: some of these polling centers have been at nursing homes, precisely to allow those people living in the nursing homes the opportunity to vote without dealing with the logistics of getting an entire building's worth of limited-mobility patients to some other place to vote. During a pandemic - do you REALLY want to know that your elderly Aunt Sophie will have to endure EVERYONE who lives NEAR that nursing home showing up to vote that day? Because - those nursing home polling places are not limited to only the residents at the homes. Everyone who lives in that district has the right to show up and vote there.

Preparation - consideration, planning, ruling things out, adding things in, discussing the situation, is crucial or we'll end up with the same disaster of a vote experienced in Wisconsin, but on a national level.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by DianeM

I call “bull” on that. Every CITIZEN has the right and the responsibility to vote. The more that vote, the better. We are dreadfully apathetic as a nation when it comes to voting. Those that don’t vote now are not going to vote in the mail either. Show your ID and vote as you wish.

A significant portion of citizens who vote in this country, vote by mail. INCLUDING IN FLORIDA.

And, there are more people who have voted in the recent primaries (not including Wisconsin, which has been a disaster) than in previous primaries of previous presidential elections. Including more mail-in votes in states that offer it. So - current facts show you are incorrect.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Never let a crisis go to waste

Hey let's change voting laws because coronavirus!!!

I'd be very careful accepting voting law advice from random internet posters who may have an agenda.

Anybody here have a Doctorate in Voteology or forgery?

Current law says mail-in votes are valid, so I agree with what you say. We need to not change laws just because of a virus. We need to encourage all states to reflect the safety of their citizens, by implementing provisions that are already legal and currently implemented in other states.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Another issue with forcing people to actually be physically present to vote:

People who are citizens of the country, stationed overseas for their jobs, or whose jobs have them out of the country that month (such as international business moguls and their entire staff, including bodyguards, secretaries, clerks, scheduling secretaries, wardrobe coordinators, public relations directors, directors of photography, etc. etc. etc.).

Also low-income people who live in rural areas with no mass transit, and no way to GET to the polls, if they are more than a few miles away (since they would otherwise walk, or ride a bicycle, or ride a tractor).

There's the additional problem with volume: some of these polling centers have been at nursing homes, precisely to allow those people living in the nursing homes the opportunity to vote without dealing with the logistics of getting an entire building's worth of limited-mobility patients to some other place to vote. During a pandemic - do you REALLY want to know that your elderly Aunt Sophie will have to endure EVERYONE who lives NEAR that nursing home showing up to vote that day? Because - those nursing home polling places are not limited to only the residents at the homes. Everyone who lives in that district has the right to show up and vote there.

Preparation - consideration, planning, ruling things out, adding things in, discussing the situation, is crucial or we'll end up with the same disaster of a vote experienced in Wisconsin, but on a national level.

Ah yes - the poor people propaganda. Even lower income areas have sites which could serve as a polling station such as schools or other federal locations.

We already covered the out of town and military.

Nursing homes should never be used as polling places and I truly don’t believe they ever were as they are private property.

We have voted in person for eons and that truly is the only way to keep things honest. Voter ID or you don’t vote.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You mean fear such as having the new black panthers hanging out just outside polling places?

But you are right in a way, dead people have no fear, and they vote early and often, 99.9% for one party.

Oh yeah, there's no election fraud

The woman in Ohio who voted 7 times had no fear either, and she worked for the election board.

Oh yeah, there's no election fraud.

I strongly support in person voting and voter ID. An election should be won at the ballot box, not by the candidate that generates the most fraud. This isn't Venezuela

1. The woman in Ohio voted 6 times, was caught, and was punished for it. And - to the shock and surprise of absolutely no one ever - the extra votes had NO impact on the outcome of the vote, because it was statistically insignificant.
2. Please read what I actually posted, instead of your knee-jerk emotional response to something I never wrote. Seems you've been triggered. I'm sorry you feel the need to lash out at anything that causes discomfort to you. Perhaps you should take a big step back and allow for people who enjoy actual discussion, rather than reactive outbursts, to continue discussing.

3. Mail in balloting, unchecked, can create problems. That's why it's important to plan AHEAD and create checks and balances, methods and policies, procedures and fail-safes.

4. When I voted at the Paradise Rec Center in the recent primary, no one checked my ID. They checked the piece of mail that had my address on it - but they didn't check to make sure I was the one bringing that piece of mail in. That was at the actual polling place, in person. I'd be more worried about that, than mail-ins, which require matching signatures.

[blueash]

I'd really prefer to keep this thread focused on what to do for 2020. What planning needs to be done now to have procedures in place in case we have ongoing Covid problems at election time. I am not looking to debate fraud and mail in ballots, but not shy about the issue either. I am not looking to debate general issues of disenfranchisement. This thread was started because ALL the counties, GOP and DEM have asked the governor to make a plan.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

1. The woman in Ohio voted 6 times, was caught, and was punished for it. And - to the shock and surprise of absolutely no one ever - the extra votes had NO impact on the outcome of the vote, because it was statistically insignificant.
2. Please read what I actually posted, instead of your knee-jerk emotional response to something I never wrote. Seems you've been triggered. I'm sorry you feel the need to lash out at anything that causes discomfort to you. Perhaps you should take a big step back and allow for people who enjoy actual discussion, rather than reactive outbursts, to continue discussing.

3. Mail in balloting, unchecked, can create problems. That's why it's important to plan AHEAD and create checks and balances, methods and policies, procedures and fail-safes.

4. When I voted at the Paradise Rec Center in the recent primary, no one checked my ID. They checked the piece of mail that had my address on it - but they didn't check to make sure I was the one bringing that piece of mail in. That was at the actual polling place, in person. I'd be more worried about that, than mail-ins, which require matching signatures.

#1 okay her multiple voting had no effect but what if there were several hundred doing the same thing?

#4 that Rec center should be reported to the voting offices. I have been ID’d every time for the 9 years I have lived in Florida both here and in Orlando. Truly as it should be.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by DianeM

Nursing homes should never be used as polling places and I truly don’t believe they ever were as they are private property.

Churches are private property and used for voting. The rec centers here are private property and used for voting.

What you truly don't believe may not reflect reality. That is why I always encourage people to fact check as well as they can to see if "what they believe" is reality or fiction.
nursing homes as election sites - Google Search that might help you correct your belief. Florida uses nursing homes. Do you think those are good spots for the next election cycle?

Tampa Bay Times March 11, 2020
The Pinellas elections office also said Wednesday it was moving polling places for nine precincts that had originally been located at eight different assisted-living facilities because of concerns that voters and poll workers would imperil older residents more susceptible to the virus.

Clickorlando.com Mar 11 2020
DeSantis urged elections officials to move polling places located at nursing homes

Yes, nursing homes and assisted living facilities are often used. The thinking "I believe" was this would make it easier for those residents to be able to vote.

So, does the state need to be making plans now to find alternative voting locations? If you want to use the schools, should election day be a school holiday? Plan now as if there are problems in October it will be too late.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by blueash

Churches are private property and used for voting. The rec centers here are private property and used for voting.

What you truly don't believe may not reflect reality. That is why I always encourage people to fact check as well as they can to see if "what they believe" is reality or fiction.
nursing homes as election sites - Google Search that might help you correct your belief. Florida uses nursing homes. Do you think those are good spots for the next election cycle?

Tampa Bay Times March 11, 2020
The Pinellas elections office also said Wednesday it was moving polling places for nine precincts that had originally been located at eight different assisted-living facilities because of concerns that voters and poll workers would imperil older residents more susceptible to the virus.

Clickorlando.com Mar 11 2020
DeSantis urged elections officials to move polling places located at nursing homes

Yes, nursing homes and assisted living facilities are often used. The thinking "I believe" was this would make it easier for those residents to be able to vote.

So, does the state need to be making plans now to find alternative voting locations? If you want to use the schools, should election day be a school holiday? Plan now as if there are problems in October it will be too late.

Okay I’ll drink the koolaid on nursing homes.

As for schools - in New York (where thankfully I’m from), elections were always at schools, both public and private, and yes they were closed.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by DianeM

Okay I’ll drink the koolaid on nursing homes.

As for schools - in New York (where thankfully I’m from), elections were always at schools, both public and private, and yes they were closed.

It is not koolaid, it is just you had your fact wrong, as I pointed out. Now I will point out that in Florida which is the topic of this thread, schools are not closed on election day. Should that change? or should schools be eliminated as voting sites? It is not just election day that requires extra activity in the school but the day before which requires that the site be made ready with equipment and wiring and security. So actually two days of school disruption.