[blueash]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

a) Election fraud does exist, anyone who doesn't believe that must live in Fantasyland

b) To date, I agree that the election fraud in the US has been minimal and has not impacted the results of any national election

c) Mail in ballot fraud is also minimal, mostly because such a small percentage of voting is done by mail, mostly military and those travelling

d) However, and it's a BIG HOWEVER, if 100% of the voting was done by mail, you can guarantee the amount of fraud will be huge, and very well might have an impact on the results

b may not be true. It is unclear if JFK won Illinois because of fraud. Older elections including Hayes are also in doubt.

c as has been noted, a large % of votes in Florida are by mail, and 100% in several states are by mail. No one has found evidence of significant fraud, nor has it even been alleged to be an issue in those states.

d is an opinion.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by Moderator

This thread is on life support. If you want to discuss the topic, it will survive. If you want to continue throwing rocks at each other, it won’t last long. Your choice.

Moderator

Probably not the worst idea. It’s going to get uglier and uglier.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by DianeM

Leave it as it is. Likely November will no longer be the insanity we’re seeing now.

Thank you. You have given your reply to my initial question. No need to have a contingency plan for November because it is unlikely there will be a problem.
I certainly hope you are right about the no problem part. I have always thought that planning for foreseeable problems was a good idea. I wear my seat belt just in case.

[CarolSells]

Originally Posted by blueash

Yes Florida elections are a mess. The hanging chads ballot was in person voting. I'm not sure what point you're making about the 2012 ballots that were found late. 83% of them were ballots cast at the voting site. So apparently having people vote in person does not guarantee a perfect election. Is that your point?

No. My cited source was to emphasize the possible and, IMO, the potential probability (due to human handling of ballots and ensuing errors) of skewed returns.

Mr/Ms Moderator, we are having a civil exchange. 🌞

[Marvic 1]

Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

Originally Posted by blueash

I eagerly await your posting of a link showing that Judicial Watch found one million fraud mail in votes in California [hint you are wrong, totally wrong]

I'd also like you reveal who all those left wingers are in Utah and North Dakota who were able to force those GOP controlled states to adopt vote by mail. I'm still awaiting your actual idea as to what should be done to making voting safe in a Covid environment. If you reject vote by mail, and you'd better change Florida law if you fear it is too risky, what do you support? More voting days to spread out the number of people at the polls? Vote by internet? Longer hours? More voting sites? Outdoor voting sites? Giving everyone PPE as they get to a voting site? What do you want people to do?

Or is it just, if you're too scaredy cat to vote with Covid then stay home and accept the decision of those more courageous or foolish. What is your plan, if any?

Click here for your question...
Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

I have an ID and can prove of MY American Citizenship, so I vote the way this country intended voting to be held, by showing up and vote at the voting booths...
As for the other questions your asking, I don't watch CNN or MSNBC so I can't answer those..
Have a nice day...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Marvic 1

Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

Click here for your question...
Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

I have an ID and can prove of MY American Citizenship, so I vote the way this country intended voting to be held, by showing up and vote at the voting booths...
As for the other questions your asking, I don't watch CNN or MSNBC so I can't answer those..
Have a nice day...

Okay! So now we know what you'd like to see as a result. What is your idea of a plan to implement it?

Consider:

The possibility that the virus will still be around in November, affecting and killing people who gather in groups.

Consider:

Not all current polling places in this country (or this state) are wheelchair accessible.

Consider:

Some polling places might be closed due to contamination or quarantine, in November, that were supposed to be open in November. That means people who would normally be voting at their usual place would need to find another place to vote. Some of those people rely on Florida's idea of "mass transit" to get to town centers and other central locations, and this might mean having to take the entire day off from work, just so they can get a bus, and a transfer, and another bus, and possibly an Uber from there, just so they can cast their vote. In short, it would be a hardship to certain members of the legally authorized population - and as a result, there would be fewer of these people voting.

Consider:
Some people aren't in the country when the vote is being held.

Consider:
Some people who are in the country, are not in the state of residence on Election Day.

What are your plans for all of these other considerations, to ensure that ALL people with the proper identity and citizenship have the same opportunity to vote, in person, presenting that proper identity?

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Marvic 1

Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

Click here for your question...
Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

I have an ID and can prove of MY American Citizenship, so I vote the way this country intended voting to be held, by showing up and vote at the voting booths...
As for the other questions your asking, I don't watch CNN or MSNBC so I can't answer those..
Have a nice day...

I am curious as to exactly what your link has to do with FRAUD ?? Or impact on ANY election ???

Maybe you should try watching other view points...just a suggestion.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Okay! So now we know what you'd like to see as a result. What is your idea of a plan to implement it?

Consider:

The possibility that the virus will still be around in November, affecting and killing people who gather in groups.

Consider:

Not all current polling places in this country (or this state) are wheelchair accessible.

Consider:

Some polling places might be closed due to contamination or quarantine, in November, that were supposed to be open in November. That means people who would normally be voting at their usual place would need to find another place to vote. Some of those people rely on Florida's idea of "mass transit" to get to town centers and other central locations, and this might mean having to take the entire day off from work, just so they can get a bus, and a transfer, and another bus, and possibly an Uber from there, just so they can cast their vote. In short, it would be a hardship to certain members of the legally authorized population - and as a result, there would be fewer of these people voting.

Consider:
Some people aren't in the country when the vote is being held.

Consider:
Some people who are in the country, are not in the state of residence on Election Day.

What are your plans for all of these other considerations, to ensure that ALL people with the proper identity and citizenship have the same opportunity to vote, in person, presenting that proper identity?

Consider

We have a government here in Florida who are paid to handle these things and neither you or the poster you are replying to will have to worry about it.

[DianeM]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Consider

We have a government here in Florida who are paid to handle these things and neither you or the poster you are replying to will have to worry about it.

You are incredibly wise. Many, including me, fell into the spiders web. Great response.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Marvic 1

Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

Click here for your question...
Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls | RealClearPolitics

I have an ID and can prove of MY American Citizenship, so I vote the way this country intended voting to be held, by showing up and vote at the voting booths...
As for the other questions your asking, I don't watch CNN or MSNBC so I can't answer those..
Have a nice day...

I'm having a nice day. Thank you. Your post which caused me to ask for proof made the claim, let me find it... "Judicial Watch found one million fraud mail in votes in California"

Here is what Judicial Watch found HERE

What you have linked to here are reports that there were people who were registered to vote who could not be verified as living at the address listed. Apparently California had not purged its lists for 20 years. None of your links said anyone actually fraudulently voted and certainly none of them said that one million of them fraudulently cast mail in votes. That is what you claimed. You still have nothing to support that claim. All the links showed is that California had inactive voters still listed. It shows no evidence of in person nor by mail fraud. My oldest daughter was still listed at my home several years after marrying and moving and registering to vote at her new address. There was no fraud.

I know one other person who made the same claim of one million fraudulent mail in votes in California. Maybe that is where you heard it. That person was also wrong in their understanding of the findings. The Pew report also found over 2 million people were registered in two states. That doesn't mean they were voting in 2 states. It was reported that among those registered in two states were:
Jared Kushner, Steve Mnuchin, Steve Bannon, and Sean Spicer.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That is political propaganda horsepucky. There are many states that provide mail-in ballots (including Florida), with very little actual fraud going on. The percentage of actual fraud (as opposed to assumed, alleged, accused, or supposed) is not even statistically significant.

With the singular exception of manipulation in North Carolina, during a single election, this just flat out isn't a "thing."

The only people who are fighting against it, are people who have a lot to lose if ALL citizens have better access to casting a vote. They are against it because they are afraid that if more people vote - more people will vote against them. And they would probably be correct.

But it's fear that keeps the votes out of peoples' hands, not fraud.

You opinion just like his.

[Number 10 GI]

If the country is still in the same situation as were are now, an election will be the least of our problems. Our economy will be in a shambles and deep into a depression.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Rags123

I would agree. Nothing posted even close to voter fraud anywhere, thus what is the point of this discussion.

As the OP I might offer that the topic of this thread was not intended to be voter fraud. It was intended to be a discussion of what the state should do in preparation for the possibility that Covid might still be an issue in August or November. The example of the problems encountered in Wisconsin this week when voters were going to the polls in the midst of Covid was referenced. Several people then replied about how mail in votes were a risk to a fair election and it went a bit sideways.

I am still interested in thoughts on what might be in a good plan. No one has commented on increased voting locations, increasing hours per location, increasing the number of days for early voting, provision of PPE to voters or other options that might be considered. And I hope someone will have a clever, maybe off the wall idea to keep voters safe but still allow them to participate fully.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by blueash

As the OP I might offer that the topic of this thread was not intended to be voter fraud. It was intended to be a discussion of what the state should do in preparation for the possibility that Covid might still be an issue in August or November. The example of the problems encountered in Wisconsin this week when voters were going to the polls in the midst of Covid was referenced. Several people then replied about how mail in votes were a risk to a fair election and it went a bit sideways.

I am still interested in thoughts on what might be in a good plan. No one has commented on increased voting locations, increasing hours per location, increasing the number of days for early voting, provision of PPE to voters or other options that might be considered. And I hope someone will have a clever, maybe off the wall idea to keep voters safe but still allow them to participate fully.

A possible idea that I just made up out of the vast expanse of nothingness between my ears:

Anyone with a valid ID can go to any authorized location any time between now and Election Week (not day - the idea is to have a week), and acquire a punch card. The card would be uniquely coded to that individual person.

I don't know if non-drivers-license state IDs and "real" IDs have codes on the back, but Florida licenses do. Those folks would show up at any authorized polling place during Election Week, scan their ID, check off the punch card with their voting choices, and slide the card into a machine that will capture and lock the card.

No one gets to see these cards until the end of Voting Week, and the machine does not tally the cards until the Voting Commissioner pushes a button at the end of the week that says "go ahead and tally them." It doesn't keep a running tally, so as not to cause the media to say "this person's doing great, don't bother voting for that person."

No one gets to know who's winning and who's not winning until the Commissioner sees the results, minutes before the announcement.

If there's any dispute, the cards can be manually counted.

The only glitch to this, is for people who are snowbirds. Their licenses prove they live in Florida, but they live here only part time. They live somewhere else part-time. In which state do they vote? If their license is for Ohio, but they're in Florida in November, then their ID would not be recognized as valid for voting in Florida.

If Ohio has the same rules - no absentee votes allowed - then they wouldn't be allowed to vote at all.

And that brings me back to mail-in voting. It's a valid method of voting, it works in the states that have it, the possibility of fraud is minimal (which is already proven because it's been implemented and there's been minimal fraud). I'm also on board with electronic voting via the internet, though I'm less convinced that this wouldn't pose security issues.

[chet2020]

I vote by mail whenever possible. It's simply convenient. I have to submit my photo ID to get the ballot. They can track my request, the blank ballot to my house, my ballot back to them. Easy to audit.