CVS to weigh workers

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  #46  
Old 03-22-2013, 05:56 PM
rubicon rubicon is offline
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Wow! Am I glad my genes allow me to consume more than the average guy and yet keep my boyish figure. Did I read where the BMI is seriously flawed?

Did I read where insurers are doing the math and finding that the Affordable Act ain 't affordable and could well double premiums? Did I read that better than 50% of the 40 million people entering the health insurance programs will be getting hefty subsidies from the government. Hmmmmmm that means people like me are going to support this health care insurance system both from increased premiums and also by increased taxes

I am glad CVS and its insurer are apply punitive measures toward these obese and irresponsible people. Thank God they wouldn't resort to those incentive programs insuerers used in the past that rewarded people for good behavior such as the rewards program my wife's corporation sponsored wherein employees were paid up to $500 for agreeing to a complete physical including lab work, colonoscopy followed my recommendations for improvements. Better Big Brother take the lead the rest of us are incapable

I don't think CVS goes far enough; I believe in order to reduce insurance rates corporations and their insurer should:

Apply penalities to those people whose genetic makeup cause them to be obsese, mentally ill, having any physical disablility

Apply double penalities for those people who abuse prescriptions drugs, illegal drugs,

Apply double penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and have more than 2.1 babies per family.

Apply double penalities for any people caught going in excess of the speed limit, flying in a plane or for that matter penalitie in porportion of the city they commute in highest in New York City. Los Angles lower in Butte MT

apply triple penalities if you live in the bad sections of chicago, New York Los angles because your chances of being shot are greater

Apply triple penalities for people who fail to pracice safe sex which leads to STD's

Apply quadruple penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and contract HIV/AIDS

Now that is a definition of fairness an insurance actuary could love

What is wrong with us?
  #47  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:34 PM
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Let's be clear...the causes and cures for obesity are many. For some the genetic factor is so strong - a diet well under 1000 calories/day is the only option (short of surgery)...think that's doable 24/7/365 for the rest of your life...try it...I managed it for 3 years...then I just couldn't.

For others a moderate decrease in calories and increase in activity will produce the desired weight loss.

The problem with many of these posts and the CVS policy is that it assumes everyone falls into something closer to the second catagory.

It is in the diet industry's interest, and even the medical industry (docs, too) to assume the latter category will provide the fix. Why? Well, for the diet industry - the motive is profit. For the medical industry - it is in everyone's interest to try the least invasive option, first. If behavior modification works everyone wins.

Unfortunately, recent studies show very mixed/bad outcomes with just behavior modification. This is a report on a recent study out of Britian: Only one in 100 dieters keeps the weight off | Mail Online

What is clear here is that ignorance and prejudice are in no short supply and the unfortunate thing is that dumb opinions first manifest in corporate policy and then insidiously work their way into public policy. This de-evolution of our culture is a sad thing but as Forest Gump said - "Stupid is as Stupid Does."
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  #48  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:39 PM
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Is this the same CVS that has shelves filled with candy bunnies, jelly beans, sugar cereals, greasy snacks like potato chips and faux healthy ones like popcorn with 13 grams of fat per serving, cases filled with sugared soda, high energy boosting drinks that make people's hearts race to name a few of the other unhealthy things they sell. Yeah, it's ok to sell them, but not ok to actually EAT them if you work at CVS because t hey will make you gain weight or raise your blook pressure. It seems like just working for that company can raise your pressure.
There are so many reasons for things we can't understand that I for one work hard not to judge anyone on how they look or why they do what they do.
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon View Post
Wow! Am I glad my genes allow me to consume more than the average guy and yet keep my boyish figure. Did I read where the BMI is seriously flawed?

Did I read where insurers are doing the math and finding that the Affordable Act ain 't affordable and could well double premiums? Did I read that better than 50% of the 40 million people entering the health insurance programs will be getting hefty subsidies from the government. Hmmmmmm that means people like me are going to support this health care insurance system both from increased premiums and also by increased taxes

I am glad CVS and its insurer are apply punitive measures toward these obese and irresponsible people. Thank God they wouldn't resort to those incentive programs insuerers used in the past that rewarded people for good behavior such as the rewards program my wife's corporation sponsored wherein employees were paid up to $500 for agreeing to a complete physical including lab work, colonoscopy followed my recommendations for improvements. Better Big Brother take the lead the rest of us are incapable

I don't think CVS goes far enough; I believe in order to reduce insurance rates corporations and their insurer should:

Apply penalities to those people whose genetic makeup cause them to be obsese, mentally ill, having any physical disablility

Apply double penalities for those people who abuse prescriptions drugs, illegal drugs,

Apply double penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and have more than 2.1 babies per family.

Apply double penalities for any people caught going in excess of the speed limit, flying in a plane or for that matter penalitie in porportion of the city they commute in highest in New York City. Los Angles lower in Butte MT

apply triple penalities if you live in the bad sections of chicago, New York Los angles because your chances of being shot are greater

Apply triple penalities for people who fail to pracice safe sex which leads to STD's

Apply quadruple penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and contract HIV/AIDS

Now that is a definition of fairness an insurance actuary could love

What is wrong with us?
Is this what you saw about health insurance

Health Insurers Warn on Premiums - WSJ.com
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:37 PM
RedChariot RedChariot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janmcn View Post
People don't choose to be black or hispanic or disabled, but 99.9999999% of obese people are obese because of their own bad choices.
Do you really think anyone would choose to be obese? To live with shame and ridicule from the likes of you? I think not. Educate yourself on the issue.
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  #51  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:15 PM
Suzi Suzi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedChariot View Post
WOW! You refer to "patients." If you are a nurse or Dr. I am appauled by your lack of empathy. Thank god I never had you as part of my health care. Obese people are the last minority that it is ok to discriminate against. Refuse to allow them to board an airplane, take away their insurance or have them pay big fines. That will really help won't it. You would not even think to do this to a Black or Hispanic person. Nor the disabled. Shame on you.
Yes, I am a health care provider. And I am guessing you have never had SO many patients in your office who are "litterly" dying of obesity. Yes, dying. A diabetic that is so out of control that their feet and legs are falling off or have gangrene. We cannot control their insulin levels even in the hospital. Or the patient who can't walk to the bathroom even with their oxygen because their lungs don't ventilate because their abdomen is so high and pressing up on their lungs. Or they can't lay down and breathe for the same reason.

Yes, gastric bypass can be an answer for some. It has its own set of side-effects as well AND many patients out-eat their bypasses. YES out-eat them.
But the most concerning issue to all of us is the rate of obesity and at a cost of $50,000 - $100,000 a bypass (average costs including unexpected complications), how can we as a nation afford that. Would it not be in everyones best interest to eat better and maintain a healthy weight to begin with?

You think I seem heartless, unfeeling and uncaring? Do you have any idea how painful it is to watch this happening to a patient (and their loved ones). Patients that you have cared for years and warned them that their life-style choices were going to cost them in terms of pain and suffering. It hurts beyond belief to watch them suffer - the pain in their legs....sometimes I can't give them pain medicine because it will decrease their respirations which could cause death. And when they realize they are not going home.....all I can offer is my compassion and promise that I will watch over their family.

Yes, it is awful, watching helplessly as people eat themselves to an early death. I wish I never had to do it again. It reminds me of a famous baseball player who said "If I had known I would have lived so long, I would have taken better care of myself". Please don't shoot the messenger but this is what I see everyday. More and more and more obese people so that 12 of 20 patients I see everyday are on this destructive course.
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  #52  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Heartnsoul View Post
we should be able to discuss the new "affordable health care act" that is current events , correct?? We are not mentioning any politicians, names, parties, etc..

just FACTS of what is going on.
...FACT.....the new Affordable Health Care Act ( AHCA) will only allow
a 3 times swing from lowest to highest premium for ANY class........

Currently a 8 times swing is generally used.
FOR EXAMPLE....
A 70 yr old male pays 8 times as much $ premium as a 21 year old male.
70 year old male pays $800.........21 year old pays $100 for same coverage.

NEW RULE...under AHCA...as written...
...70 year old male rate can only be 3 times the 21 year olds' rate.

GUESS who is going to have a MAJOR premium increases.

.....increase the 21 year olds' premium to $ 266. (up from $100)...
the insurance company will be able to charge the 70 year old the $800.

Some of those in Congress were told there IS a Forest out there...
they replied ... "no way.....there is only a bunch of trees".
  #53  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:02 PM
RedChariot RedChariot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzi View Post
Yes, I am a health care provider. And I am guessing you have never had SO many patients in your office who are "litterly" dying of obesity. Yes, dying. A diabetic that is so out of control that their feet and legs are falling off or have gangrene. We cannot control their insulin levels even in the hospital. Or the patient who can't walk to the bathroom even with their oxygen because their lungs don't ventilate because their abdomen is so high and pressing up on their lungs. Or they can't lay down and breathe for the same reason.

Yes, gastric bypass can be an answer for some. It has its own set of side-effects as well AND many patients out-eat their bypasses. YES out-eat them.
But the most concerning issue to all of us is the rate of obesity and at a cost of $50,000 - $100,000 a bypass (average costs including unexpected complications), how can we as a nation afford that. Would it not be in everyones best interest to eat better and maintain a healthy weight to begin with?

You think I seem heartless, unfeeling and uncaring? Do you have any idea how painful it is to watch this happening to a patient (and their loved ones). Patients that you have cared for years and warned them that their life-style choices were going to cost them in terms of pain and suffering. It hurts beyond belief to watch them suffer - the pain in their legs....sometimes I can't give them pain medicine because it will decrease their respirations which could cause death. And when they realize they are not going home.....all I can offer is my compassion and promise that I will watch over their family.

Yes, it is awful, watching helplessly as people eat themselves to an early death. I wish I never had to do it again. It reminds me of a famous baseball player who said "If I had known I would have lived so long, I would have taken better care of myself". Please don't shoot the messenger but this is what I see everyday. More and more and more obese people so that 12 of 20 patients I see everyday are on this destructive course.
I was a health care provider for many years. When I began exhibiting behaviors and feeling you are expressing I retired. Patients need a non judgemental approach to their care and you seem to have lost yours.
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  #54  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:31 PM
ilovetv ilovetv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedChariot View Post
I was a health care provider for many years. When I began exhibiting behaviors and feeling you are expressing I retired. Patients need a non judgemental approach to their care and you seem to have lost yours.
I don't think Suzi was being "judgmental" by stating the naked, factual reality to people here who don't get it: that it's painful for a healthcare provider to watch their patients slowly, wretchedly killing themselves with over-eating, just as it is painful to watch a person kill themselves with booze or narcotics or anorexia.

With the morbidly obese people I've known/observed, their approach to food and romancing it seems more rooted in a mental/psychological/psychiatric problem than in a physiological one.
  #55  
Old 03-23-2013, 07:25 AM
janmcn janmcn is offline
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Originally Posted by RedChariot View Post
Do you really think anyone would choose to be obese? To live with shame and ridicule from the likes of you? I think not. Educate yourself on the issue.
I didn't say they choose to be obese. Overweight people make bad choices in the food and beverages they choose to consume.
  #56  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:21 AM
JourneyOfLife JourneyOfLife is offline
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Originally Posted by Geewiz View Post
The difference between smoking and obesity is that one is a lifestyle choice (smoking) and the other (obesity) has a strong genetic component. ..
So is age and almost every other aspect of human life. Some have real medical problems that are the root cause... but the majority have an overeating, poor eating habits, and lack of basic exercise problem. Yes some have a metabolism that may require more strict attention to diet and exercise. But, as they say.... life is not fair.... get over it!

Underwriting based on BMI (and rating the insured) is fairly common and the few healthcare funding providers that are not doing it soon will.

It is not about healthcare per se, it is not about genetic/tendency, it is not about moral choices... on and on.

It is about money and economics.... and increasingly... limited/strained health care capacity (money, facility, professionals, drugs, etc).... which ties back to.... guess what?

We can't have it both ways. There are several ways to reduce healthcare costs.

Everyone seems to find different approaches unacceptable... Their reason for not liking it... They think it will somehow affect them in some negative way (real or imagined).

Our current approach is extremely expensive and probably unsustainable. If it were sustainable, we will eventually choose a different approach due to the extremely high cost we will soon be enduring.

We all can expect much more of the cost of healthcare to be shifted our way... the money has to come from somewhere.
  #57  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Geewiz View Post
That's both ignorant and wrong. CDC Features - Obesity & Genetics
I don't see that your link provides any conclusive proof that obesity can all be blamed on genes. It only states possible genetic causes. And one thing I have learned from my studies is that genes don't act alone to cause disease. For example, a person may have a gene for cancer and never get cancer. A person may have a gene for Alzheimer's and never develop that disease.

Not to mention the fact that they have a lot of genes they are looking at that they think MAY play a role in obesity. Nothing about it is certain.

However, one thing for certain that I notice on these forums is that only a minority of people take diet-control seriously. The majority either think it's a joke or that life is to be enjoyed by eating the processed foods that they like . They say that life is too short to be depriving one's self. It's a poor attitude and they pass that attitude on to their children and grandchildren. They actually encourage poor eating habits.

So it's not so much the fault of the genes that are pased on from generation to generation but the attitudes, habits and traditions. Let's clean it up.
  #58  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:33 PM
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This explains best what I've seen. This book has been around over 20 years, and the reader reviews at the book link affirm this core problem:

“A life-changing book.” — Oprah

In this moving and intimate book, Geneen Roth, bestselling author of Feeding the Hungry Heart and Breaking Free from Compulsive Eating, shows how dieting and emotional eating often become a substitute for intimacy.

Drawing on her own painful personal experiences, as well as the candid stories of those she has helped in her seminars, Roth examines the crucial issues that surround emotional eating: need for control, dependency on melodrama, desire for what is forbidden, and the belief that one wrong move can mean catastrophe.

She shows why many people overeat in an attempt to satisfy their emotional hunger, and why weight loss frequently just uncovers a new set of problems. But her welcome message is that change is possible. This book will help readers break destructive, self-perpetuating patterns and learn to satisfy all the hungers—physical and emotional—that make us human."


See book and reviews at the link/icon below: When Food Is Love: Exploring the Relationship Between Eating and Intimacy

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/When-Food-Love-Exploring-Relationship/dp/0452268184[/ame]
  #59  
Old 03-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Bucco Bucco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfixit View Post
...FACT.....the new Affordable Health Care Act ( AHCA) will only allow
a 3 times swing from lowest to highest premium for ANY class........

Currently a 8 times swing is generally used.
FOR EXAMPLE....
A 70 yr old male pays 8 times as much $ premium as a 21 year old male.
70 year old male pays $800.........21 year old pays $100 for same coverage.

NEW RULE...under AHCA...as written...
...70 year old male rate can only be 3 times the 21 year olds' rate.

GUESS who is going to have a MAJOR premium increases.

.....increase the 21 year olds' premium to $ 266. (up from $100)...
the insurance company will be able to charge the 70 year old the $800.

Some of those in Congress were told there IS a Forest out there...
they replied ... "no way.....there is only a bunch of trees".
Understand that the Affordable Care Act has many many tentacles and many companies are trying to "get ready" as best they can.

One article I read right before the Supreme Court decision on the act spells out a bit...


"A little-discussed ramification of Thursday's landmark Supreme Court health care decision is that it could make things harder for the nation's heaviest workers.

The decision upholding the Affordable Care Act has cleared the way for a planned increase in the penalties that employers can impose on workers who don't participate in company wellness programs and, in some cases, who don't meet certain health targets such as an appropriate body mass index. In other words, the obese may wind up paying penalties for being overweight. Smokers, too, may get hit.

The language of the penalties under corporate health plans is often written in terms of "incentives," where the "absence of a surcharge" on health care premiums is an "incentive" for employees to agree to take part in a wellness program. Read another way, that means workers who don't agree to participate have to pay a fine. President Barack Obama's health care law raises the limit on how high a penalty employers can set to "incentivize" participation in the programs, which typically consist of health risk assessments (often including blood tests), fitness classes, disease management plans and nutrition education.

Those most likely to be affected by the increase are cigarette smokers and obese people, two groups who studies show account for a disproportionately high percentage of health care spending.

Consider one current employer plan. Swiss Village Retirement Community in Berne, Ind., gives employees $500 discounts on their health care deductibles for meeting each of the following metrics, "not smoking, having a BMI of 27.5 or less, a low-density lipoprotein cholesterol level (LDL) of 130 milligrams per deciliter or less, and blood pressure of 130/85 or less," according to the Kaiser Health Network. Those who don't reach the goals but participate in the program are given $250 discounts. Those who don't participate at all pay full price.

But studies show that health care plans offering rewards, like the one at Swiss Village, are rapidly giving way to plans that offer rewards and assess penalties. According to a report from benefits consulting firm Towers Watson, which was cited in Forbes, 38 percent of employers expect to have such penalties in place by the end of 2012."


Health Plan Costs For Obese And Smokers Could Rise After Supreme Court Ruling

Lots of changes on the horizon and keep in mind that those in congress who passed this did not read it so expect changes as it becomes uncomfortable for those same folks who may lose votes because of this piece of legislation.
  #60  
Old 03-23-2013, 03:00 PM
JourneyOfLife JourneyOfLife is offline
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Originally Posted by Bucco View Post
Understand that the Affordable Care Act has many many tentacles and many companies are trying to "get ready" as best they can.

One article I read right before the Supreme Court decision on the act spells out a bit...

[B]
"A little-discussed ramification of Thursday's landmark Supreme Court health care decision is that it could make things harder for the nation's heaviest workers.
These practices have been going on in the private industry for years. Nothing new... unless of course you are talking about government funded programs!

Besides, it is not a penalty, it is called underwriting and rating. Common procedures in the insurance industry... always has been!!!!

Why shouldn't the government adopt practices that are common in private industry? Would you rather they jack up premium across the board for everyone?
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