[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Challenger

My wife is 72(still lookin pretty good) had a knee replacement 6 yrs ago. We fly frequently in US and Asia. She gets the hand treatment every time and has never thought that the TSA folks were impolite or insensitive, quite to the contrary. Until we get the fail safe technology for this process , we will all need to do our best with a bad situation. The whinning annoys me and many others to whom I have spoken. The press rather than responsibly reporting situations, throws gasoline on the fire for their own benefit.Some knee jerk reactions by the TSA are understandable in light of the risks involved in trying to provide safety and to avoid the ultimate civil rights breach(death). My son is a 747 pilot, his wife is a former flight attendant and my daughter is a retired flight attendant so we have some understanding of the problems airline personnel face.

Excellent post, to me a very sensible approach.

[mitchbr47]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Some commentators have been trying to portray the outrage of fliers against the TSA as having been fomented by politically conservative voices. Well that's about to change.

Daily Kos, the ultra-liberal website has started to take notice of the outrageous actions of male TSA agents in targeting women.

They say that only female agents grope females, but it's far from the truth. Reports are coming in from many airports of male agents pressuring women to allow them to grope them or they'll be greatly delayed.

Some women have submitted, and have been traumatized by the experience.

When are we all going to rise up against this?






http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...ellers-(w-poll)

Against what? I can report that I didn't see any of this going on at 2 airports over Thanksgiving. Unless you are there and saw it firsthand, or talked to the person involved.... Where do you find or hear
these tidbits? The next thing will be an examination of my lifesavers to make sure the colors are in the correct order. I looked at that website and never saw the information you mentioned.
We could buy 4th Amendment Underwear http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

How about doing a survey of Villagers who were groped by the TSA during their holiday travels?

Also know the reliability of sources that are quoted and don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

Question: Unless you fly for a living and are worried about the accumulation of x-rays - Why not submit to the scanner? Certainly beats the pat down in my opinion. Maybe we have to forgo some of our previous freedoms in the name of safety? Given the choice I'll take the scanner. I would bet that 99.99% of TSA agents don't like the pat down either.

Our constitution protects us from such searches without probable cause. Do you wish to give up that protection? I don't. There is no need. Follow the EL AL model. Scan those whom have given probable cause. The purpose behind the scanners for all is political correctness. I hope you understand that.

Yoda

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by mitchbr47

Against what? I can report that I didn't see any of this going on at 2 airports over Thanksgiving. Unless you are there and saw it firsthand, or talked to the person involved.... Where do you find or hear
these tidbits? The next thing will be an examination of my lifesavers to make sure the colors are in the correct order. I looked at that website and never saw the information you mentioned.
We could buy 4th Amendment Underwear http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

How about doing a survey of Villagers who were groped by the TSA during their holiday travels?

Also know the reliability of sources that are quoted and don't believe everything you read on the internet.

I don't know what you mean "Where do you hear these tidbits?" The story in the article attached to the original post is a first hand account of the humiliation and physical assault of a rape survivor at the hands of a male TSA agent. I didn't make it up out of hand. If you want to discount her story, go ahead. I'm sure, at least for this woman, that it won't be the first time an assault victim had her experience being doubted.

If you had followed this story at all you could have read many stories of the new protocols at our nations airports were curtailed over the Thanksgiving Weekend in order to avoid the planned protests, or "opt out day" as it was called. In the following article there are quotes from major newspapers and individual fliers. Those who flew on the holiday weekend were largely spared.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/drudge-f...rudge-won.html

As far as your mocking of the internet as a news source, I'd like to inform you that we are now in the 21st century and this is the primary source of news and news investigation and news research.

Just in case you didn't already know.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Just curious if you have contacted your elected state officals or other public figures about your concerns?

[mitchbr47]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I don't know what you mean "Where do you hear these tidbits?" The story in the article attached to the original post is a first hand account of the humiliation and physical assault of a rape survivor at the hands of a male TSA agent. I didn't make it up out of hand. If you want to discount her story, go ahead. I'm sure, at least for this woman, that it won't be the first time an assault victim had her experience being doubted.

If you had followed this story at all you could have read many stories of the new protocols at our nations airports were curtailed over the Thanksgiving Weekend in order to avoid the planned protests, or "opt out day" as it was called. In the following article there are quotes from major newspapers and individual fliers. Those who flew on the holiday weekend were largely spared.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/drudge-f...rudge-won.html

As far as your mocking of the internet as a news source, I'd like to inform you that we are now in the 21st century and this is the primary source of news and news investigation and news research.

Just in case you didn't already know.

I'm aware. I question the sources, not the fact that the information comes from the internet. TV personalities, whether on the left or right are not journalists. Just about anyone can write a blog. 1.5 to 2 million people fly every day in our country. If 50 people felt uncomfortable for national security, too bad. As stated by others... use the scanner, be smart with what you try to bring on board, take a train, bus, or car. Stay home.


By the way, online probably isn't the primary source of news yet. I'm sure we both know people who can't eve turn on a computer. According to the Pew Report, 61% of Americans get their news from online news sources, but local tv is still the most popular means. Local newspapers reach 50%, and 17% read national versions like USA Today, WSJ, or the NY Times.
Only 2% get their news exclusively from online sources.
One can find articles in print, online, or any other media including social networking to defend any point of view. We can even banter back and forth different points of view to no avail.
It is unfortunate if all the incidents that you site were true. Maybe a pat down should not be an option. Screen staff better. But that would be construed as government intrusion.

I would imagine there are far worse things. A homeless child died today. An unborn baby was aborted. Someone froze to death. Someone was murdered in St. Louis this week. Someone lost their home due to a foreclosure, a fire, or any other reason. An addict overdosed and died. There was an alcohol related car death that devastated a family. A mentally challenged person was abused. There is a lot of pain and suffering in the world compared to the issues discussed in this forum.

[RichieLion]

So all the reports that the terrorist entities are already ready and able to use internally placed explosives that totally beat the system of airport scanners and pat-downs are being ignored in all these posts.

The scanners and pat-downs are useless and a sham action.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Russ_Boston

Question: Unless you fly for a living and are worried about the accumulation of x-rays - Why not submit to the scanner? Certainly beats the pat down in my opinion. Maybe we have to forgo some of our previous freedoms in the name of safety? Given the choice I'll take the scanner. I would bet that 99.99% of TSA agents don't like the pat down either.

I bet they don't either. It isn't part of of our natural inclination to be so physically close to people we don't know. AND not everyone washes good there or there or there and even if they do, if you are nervous your deodorant can let you down.

Those folks working for the TSA are just folks like everyone else and it is a job.

It is a rule, a new rule that keeps us safe when we fly. No biggy.

We have to do this because our family loves us and there are people who are serious about blowing up planes.

That is the bottom line. Anything else is a waste of breath.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by otherbruddaDarrell

Just curious if you have contacted your elected state officals or other public figures about your concerns?

If you are addressing me, the answer is YES.

Yoda

[bkcunningham1]

Originally Posted by Yoda

If you are addressing me, the answer is YES.

Yoda

Are they lameducks? Mine is. BTW, who has authority over the Dept. of Homeland Security?

[saratogaman]

The manufacturer of those new scanners is represented by the former head of Homeland Security Dept. -- Chertoff.
The revolving door continues!

[Tbugs]

If RichieLion believes everything he reads on-line, well, 'nuff said.

I had family fly this holiday time from Orlando to Baltimore - no extra scanning other than walking through the usual metal detector - no patdowns at all - one female relative did get her palms swabbed for explosive residue - none found.

Female agents will pat down female travellers (not grope, Richie). Male agents will pat down male travellers - and they also do not grope.

Richie, have you personally had any of this done to you or a family member? Do not believe everything you read on-line. It may be just made up by Glenn Beck or Keith Olberman or Sarah Palin or Nancy Grace to get them some extra air time.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Tbugs

If RichieLion believes everything he reads on-line, well, 'nuff said.

I had family fly this holiday time from Orlando to Baltimore - no extra scanning other than walking through the usual metal detector - no patdowns at all - one female relative did get her palms swabbed for explosive residue - none found.

Female agents will pat down female travellers (not grope, Richie). Male agents will pat down male travellers - and they also do not grope.

Richie, have you personally had any of this done to you or a family member? Do not believe everything you read on-line. It may be just made up by Glenn Beck or Keith Olberman or Sarah Palin or Nancy Grace to get them some extra air time.

I've already addressed the fact that the TSA curtailed the use of the new scanners and the advanced pat-downs in anticipation of the expected disruptions promised by call for an opt out day and linked to the news stories. If your relatives traveled over the holiday weekend they missed out on the opportunity to go through the naked x-ray or the new groping pat-downs; sorry.

Also, groping with fingers and open palm is indeed happening and is the new standard protocol that you can research for yourself, if you want, and you're ignorant about the protocols or just lying for some unknown reason.

The most recent story of TSA abuse I posted came from the ultra left blogsite The Daily Kos. So you're also ignorant to the fact that the story is
beyond casting as a right wing story driven by conservative pundits.

There are multiple first hand accounts of male agents searching women. If you want to keep your head in the sand, it's your business. I'm not writing these stories, only linking them.

If you like for your body to be handled, and don't mind watching as your
wife and children are handled in such an invasive manner, go ahead and let it happen, and believe that it is keeping you safe if you like; I don't mind.

If you don't like the tone of this response, it is because you feel the need to belittle me and not just disagree with my opinion. Must you be so childish?

[Larryandlinda]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I've already addressed the fact that the TSA curtailed the use of the new scanners and the advanced pat-downs in anticipation of the expected disruptions promised by call for an opt out day and linked to the news stories. If your relatives traveled over the holiday weekend they missed out on the opportunity to go through the naked x-ray or the new groping pat-downs; sorry.

Also, groping with fingers and open palm is indeed happening and is the new standard protocol that you can research for yourself, if you want, and you're ignorant about the protocols or just lying for some unknown reason.

The most recent story of TSA abuse I posted came from the ultra left blogsite The Daily Kos. So you're also ignorant to the fact that the story is
beyond casting as a right wing story driven by conservative pundits.

There are multiple first hand accounts of male agents searching women. If you want to keep your head in the sand, it's your business. I'm not writing these stories, only linking them.

If you like for your body to be handled, and don't mind watching as your
wife and children are handled in such an invasive manner, go ahead and let it happen, and believe that it is keeping you safe if you like; I don't mind.

If you don't like the tone of this response, it is because you feel the need to belittle me and not just disagree with my opinion. Must you be so childish?

Well, since we posted the link from a PACIFICA (a left-leaning public network)story about the aforementioned ties to the scanning machines, we've more or less tried to let this die, but so many TOTV'ers seem to have lotsa time on their hands!
We don't, unfortunately, as we are still workaholics . We did have an opportunity to fly to Spain and Portugal with two 20-something offspring and a significant other of one of them. Lotsa connections, sensitive areas like Paris and Amsterdam. We were not among the 'lucky' to have the massage, the hair blow, or the MRI, and even left shoes on. They did have a field day with my bike tools (that got through all US connections) and did something extraordinary. Instead of confiscation, they got an armed escort to walk with us all the way to the plane where they stashed the 'contraband' in cargo.

What bothers us more than the pat or portrait is the waste of time and money. We do want to be safe and hope they find a better way - but we are simply not xray not pataphobic- kids, wife, touch and hug but do it fast, leave me my tools and her knitting and get us outa there.

And you Kosophobes, can you see through a keyhole with both eyes?
Take some time and see that there's good info in there. Telling people not to read something is not a good thing.
And Rich, we appreciate your passion for what you believe, for whatever reason - there is real energy and keep us posted. The lynchmob is very small, so don't worry - and here's something bizarre you might have missed.
It's from the internet.http://www.deadseriousnews.com/?p=573

Looking forward to our December parade visit next week!

L and L

[RichieLion]

Here's an interesting article that was printed in Atlantic Magazine by security expert and author Bruce Schneier that discusses the reasons that the TSA can't now back down on it's scanner and enhanced pat-down protocols and procedures.

It's also verifies my earlier stories that the TSA shut down these procedures on Thanksgiving weekend to foil planned protests.

He puts forth some interesting analysis on why the agency can not now back down on the enhanced pat-downs and expect people to instead go through the backscatter body scanner.

[Text of the article removed - Tony]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...ck-down/67337/