[Bogie Shooter]

Do you have the feeling that you have read all these posts before? You are right!
Tragedy in Connecticut

[JimD215]

Is this your idea of an assault weapon? Looks like a semi-automatic weapon to me.

[Abby10]

Originally Posted by biker1

There are background checks. What we need is an ironclad national database that includes data on mental illness, HiPPA laws be damned.

There is no such thing as an "assault weapon" - it is a made up media term. The sooner people stop using that term the sooner rational discussions can proceed.

The majority of firearms are manufactured as semi-automatic and are legal. Automatic weapons, and anything converted to an automatic weapon, is already illegal.

This post deserves a repeat especially since I noticed you edited and added some additional statements worth being seen.

Thanks for the common sense post.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Do you have the feeling that you have read all these posts before? You are right!
Tragedy in Connecticut

Yup, and we'll go through it all again the next time it happens

[Psa1000]

I agree with what you are saying. I guess what I am proposing would be a better handle on the mental health aspect...a better database. Of course there are always going to be illegal transactions going on behind the scenes. It seems to be a vicious circle that no matter what good ideas are presented - there are never any sure ways to prevent these events from happening. In this recent school shooting, this child grew up without any positive direction. Perhaps the answer lies within this aspect. They used to say that it took a village to bring up a child - now it seems as though the village has turned their heads and have looked the other way. It is rare to really know your neighbor these days in Small Town USA. The answers may be right in front of our eyes.

[8notes]

Originally Posted by JimD215

An AR15 is just a scary looking rifle. Works the same as any other rifle. You pull the trigger every time you want to shoot it. The only difference is the capacity of rounds you put into a magazine. All rifles are assault weapons when they are used against someone. Makes no difference what they look like. A limit on magazine capacity may help but without a resistance people will be able to shoot lots of people no matter what weapon they use.

The issue is twofold - the size of the magazine is really important. NY and California have laws limiting magazine sizes to 10 rounds, but the Las Vegas shooter had a magazine that held 50-100 rounds. Why does anyone even legally need 10 rounds? And yes, shooters may still shoot people but if the magazine is smaller, they have to reload more frequently so not as many people die. The other issue is automatic vs. semi-automatic. The use of bump stocks to make a weapon virtually automatic is not illegal, and it is easy to add one on to a weapon. These are just 2 things that need to be looked at. You can't just keep on allowing people to do anything they want. We have to balance the gun owners' rights with public safety.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by 8notes

The issue is twofold - the size of the magazine is really important. NY and California have laws limiting magazine sizes to 10 rounds, but the Las Vegas shooter had a magazine that held 50-100 rounds. Why does anyone even legally need 10 rounds? And yes, shooters may still shoot people but if the magazine is smaller, they have to reload more frequently so not as many people die. The other issue is automatic vs. semi-automatic. The use of bump stocks to make a weapon virtually automatic is not illegal, and it is easy to add one on to a weapon. These are just 2 things that need to be looked at. You can't just keep on allowing people to do anything they want. We have to balance the gun owners' rights with public safety.

Evil people will find a way to kill. Bombs come to mind. As I have said before, when we are frightened we want to blame someone. DO something. This is a very, very complex issue. Those who are taught that killing is wrong, would only kill to protect their own life or to protect others. Or are gravely mentally ill.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Evil people will find a way to kill. Bombs come to mind. As I have said before, when we are frightened we want to blame someone. DO something. This is a very, very complex issue. Those who are taught that killing is wrong, would only kill to protect their own life or to protect others. Or are gravely mentally ill.

Yes we should definitely do nothing and just wait for the next mass murder to happen so we can have this discussion again.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by fw102807

Yes we should definitely do nothing and just wait for the next mass murder to happen so we can have this discussion again.

I remember a couple of weeks ago when we two discussed the time it takes to release a person from the hospital. That too is complex, and if it were easily solved it would be solved, because the issue has been going on for decades. You insisted there is an answer and people can get released from the hospital faster than we have had happen. What we want to happen sometimes can be solved easily and sometimes the facts are such that it cannot be solved, easily or with great input.

It boils down to whether people are realistic or unrealistic. It is a democracy. The majority rules. Right or wrong. You see an answer. I don't see an answer. There are laws that make use of street drugs illegal. People still get them and use them. If we did that with guns, now that so many people have them, people would still get them and use them. It is sad, but very, complex.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I remember a couple of weeks ago when we two discussed the time it takes to release a person from the hospital. That too is complex, and if it were easily solved it would be solved, because the issue has been going on for decades. You insisted there is an answer and people can get released from the hospital faster than we have had happen. What we want to happen sometimes can be solved easily and sometimes the facts are such that it cannot be solved, easily or with great input.

It boils down to whether people are realistic or unrealistic. It is a democracy. The majority rules. Right or wrong. You see an answer. I don't see an answer. There are laws that make use of street drugs illegal. People still get them and use them. If we did that with guns, now that so many people have them, people would still get them and use them. It is sad, but very, complex.

What I said in both cases is that people need to not give up trying find a way to make it better and not just throw up their hands and say oh well that's just how it is. No progress ever gets made with that attitude. We should always be trying to make things better and willing to listen to ideas.

[Polar Bear]

All we need to do is study the periods in history when there were zero instances of random acts of senseless violence. Then we can just mimick what they did to...oh wait...wait...there never has been such a period!

Of course we need to do what we can. But those who think it can be totally stopped by doing one thing or another are dreaming.

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

All we need to do is study the periods in history when there were zero instances of random acts of senseless violence. Then we can just mimick what they did to...oh wait...errrr...there NEVER has been such a period!

Of course we need to do what we can. But those who think it can be totally stopped by doing one thing or another are dreaming.

Totally agree

[JimD215]

Originally Posted by 8notes

The issue is twofold - the size of the magazine is really important. NY and California have laws limiting magazine sizes to 10 rounds, but the Las Vegas shooter had a magazine that held 50-100 rounds. Why does anyone even legally need 10 rounds? And yes, shooters may still shoot people but if the magazine is smaller, they have to reload more frequently so not as many people die. The other issue is automatic vs. semi-automatic. The use of bump stocks to make a weapon virtually automatic is not illegal, and it is easy to add one on to a weapon. These are just 2 things that need to be looked at. You can't just keep on allowing people to do anything they want. We have to balance the gun owners' rights with public safety.

Only takes a second to drop one mag out and put in another. May save a life but not many. 10 rounds is fine with me but it really doesn’t matter to someone who is hell bent on taking people out.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by 8notes

The issue is twofold - the size of the magazine is really important. NY and California have laws limiting magazine sizes to 10 rounds, but the Las Vegas shooter had a magazine that held 50-100 rounds. Why does anyone even legally need 10 rounds? And yes, shooters may still shoot people but if the magazine is smaller, they have to reload more frequently so not as many people die. The other issue is automatic vs. semi-automatic. The use of bump stocks to make a weapon virtually automatic is not illegal, and it is easy to add one on to a weapon. These are just 2 things that need to be looked at. You can't just keep on allowing people to do anything they want. We have to balance the gun owners' rights with public safety.

In the case of an untrained person magazine size and reloading might make a difference. Anyone that has trained at all can reload rather quickly. I can change a magazine in a pistol or rifle in under a second. Granted I have had extensive training. How many people do you imagine are standing around just waiting for the shooter to reload so they can attack him? Chaos rules in a shooting situation. People by instinct are running away from not toward the shooter.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by fw102807

What I said in both cases is that people need to not give up trying find a way to make it better and not just throw up their hands and say oh well that's just how it is. No progress ever gets made with that attitude. We should always be trying to make things better and willing to listen to ideas.

I agree. And since the gun issue does not seem likely to be solved at once, then I think we need turn attention to the school's being made safer with new ideas not used before. There are businesses that offer seminars to corporations to make their facilities safer from attacks like these. They teach people to break windows and run. They teach people to throw things and they teach people how to save their lives. We need to be open to that as well.

Saying that something is complex and does not have an easy answer does not mean that nothing can be done. We need to realistically assess what we can do and be open to new ideas. Teachers and staff who are willing to be armed is another thought not previously considered.