[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Well, my purpose is to become aware of how we got where we are.



Yes, we need industry to be prosperous and big government seems to follow as a natural consequence.



In the beginning, I believe most Americans were farmers. Why would they have a need for schools? I think the need came as industry grew and required some minimum level of education.


Does that help any?

VillagesPL: If I understand your response "How we got where we are", it can be summed up simply by stating "necessity is the mother of invention" Each invention built on more demanding needs or wants. To engage in discussion of various industries organizations will take more space than I believe TOTV has and the format makes maintaining continuity almost impossible. I mean just look at the Ebola thread that has over 350 posts....who's on first?

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Wandatime

This may help further the discussion. Or not.

The Rise of Big Business and the Growth of Government : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

Very good. It makes one realize that it's a lot more complicated than first thought. Eventually, everyone got into the act of looking for government protections and that played a part in growing the size of government.

But it's just my nature to try to simplify things.

[Buffalo Jim]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Okay, that may have been a reason too. But I can't imagine it was that reason alone. Look at the big benefit to industry.

Look at the benefits to you the consumer as well as everyone else . What`s your point would you prefer that we travel on " wagon train trails " ?

Just amazing . Good Grief Charlie Brown !!

[graciegirl]

[

VPL says; (snipped)

In the beginning, I believe most Americans were farmers. Why would they have a need for schools? I think the need came as industry grew and required some minimum level of education.


Does that help any?[/QUOTE]
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THIS may come as a surprise to many but farming is a job. That doesn't mean that farmers are without class and depth and other interests and they don't like ballet and opera and know higher math and enjoy reading great literature and debating issues other than how much fertilizer they will need.

I think most of us were born with a thirst for knowledge and a desire to know how things works and how things interact.

[gpirate]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The words have changed but the idea is basically the same.

Public schools were created to serve the needs of industry.

The national highway system likewise was to serve industry.

Big cities like New York City grew to serve commerce and you can't have a big city without city government to manage and coordinate the many daily activities. 1) Fire department 2) police dept. 3) health dept. 4) building department etc..

Ford's assembly line led to numerous motor vehicles and as they became more numerous we needed a Motor Vehicle Department

The Federal Aviation Administration was needed as air travel became more common.

It seems like big business and big government go hand in hand. All the above agencies were needed to facilitate business.

And last but not least we have the Affordable Care Act which will eventually lead to a single payer system. But that may require a lot of explanation.

Nothing here seems logical at all. You need to explain in more detail. The way I see it big business has been taxed heavy to create big govt. Look into the waste big govt. spends every year on useless things.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Okay, I stand corrected. Not everyone pays. I pay.

Quite correct:
The question of how many people pay federal income taxes became a heated topic toward the end of the 2012 presidential campaign after Republican nominee Mitt Romney was videotaped telling supporters that 47 percent of Americans paid no federal income taxes. Romney was correct. Roughly 53 to 54 percent of Americans pay federal income tax annually. The other 46 to 47 percent for a variety of reasons, owe no federal income tax.

[Indy-Guy]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

The national highway system likewise was to serve industry.

Amazing and here I thought it was to get the snowbirds back and forth to The Villages.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy

Amazing and here I thought it was to get the snowbirds back and forth to The Villages.

No, then they would have roundabouts.

[pqrstar]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

What are you looking for? Details?

If you think public schools were created for some other reason, why don't you tell us about that other reason?

This is an interesting article on the subject

Compulsory Education

[pqrstar]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Yes, I agree. But it's not just about regulations. It's about the whole package: the number of civil servants and the taxes to pay for it. Everyone shares in the responsibility by paying taxes. What should we call it? Big government? Collectivism?

Food for thought.

Collectivism

[sunnyatlast]

CHAPTER 12
The Bureaucracy
Chapter Study Outline

The paradox of the bureaucracy is that the same organization that does so many amazing things also does things that are inefficient and wasteful. Many bureaucratic failures can be explained by the bureaucracy’s procedures, including the complexity of tasks it undertakes, and by the political conflicts that ensue when elected officials and interest groups attempt to control bureaucrat’s actions.........

Chapter 12: The Bureaucracy | American Politics Today, Core 2e: W. W. Norton StudySpace

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by CFrance

No, then they would have roundabouts.

As Larry the Cable Guy would say, "I don't care who you are. That's funny!"

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Jim

Look at the benefits to you the consumer as well as everyone else . What`s your point would you prefer that we travel on " wagon train trails " ?

Just amazing . Good Grief Charlie Brown !!

My point is: As industry became established and grew, the growth of government followed along to facilitate that growth.

Consumers eventually benefited from it but they were not the ones asking for it. The point was to figure out the origin of growth in government.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

THIS may come as a surprise to many but farming is a job. That doesn't mean that farmers are without class and depth and other interests and they don't like ballet and opera and know higher math and enjoy reading great literature and debating issues other than how much fertilizer they will need.

I think most of us were born with a thirst for knowledge and a desire to know how things works and how things interact.

All true, but lacking proper context for this discussion. What was the impetus for creating the public school system? In the beginning, people had to struggle to survive by building their own house and planting crops. I doubt that the average farmer was yearning for opera and ballet classes.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by gpirate

Nothing here seems logical at all. You need to explain in more detail. The way I see it big business has been taxed heavy to create big govt. Look into the waste big govt. spends every year on useless things.

I think you just raised an interesting new aspect to this: Did big government come back to bite big business by imposing high taxes and lots of regulations? That's a good question but it wasn't my intention to go that far with this.