[blueash]

Originally Posted by stanley

Where on those pie charts does it mention "gun injuries resulting in death"?

It doesn't. It also doesn't mention car accidents. It doesn't mention heart attacks. It doesn't mention melanoma. It doesn't mention drowning. What do you conclude from that?
If you read the entire pdf it will tell you how each diagnosis is categorized. ICD-10 is a huge collection of diagnoses that get into tiny detail.

Looking at the pie chart you will see, if the image is legible, that there are in the top five for almost all the age groups such things as suicide, homicide, accidental deaths. Some of those are gun, some are not. The pie chart does not tell you. But within each of those slices of the pie are some gun deaths.

The CDC has the fine detail on the deaths. The numbers are available using their Wonder system if you want to do the work. The summary I cited tells you that when they looked at the fine detail they found that gun violence is in the top five causes for ages 1 to 64. I accept that statement and find nothing in the pie chart to make me question the conclusion.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by blueash

I accept that statement and find nothing in the pie chart to make me question the conclusion.

And I do. Like I said............what, who to believe.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by stanley

And I do. Like I said............what, who to believe.

Let's summarize. A person says he doesn't trust the CDC because it is investigating gun violence as a disease.
I pointed out that the CDC investigates lots of things that are not diseases, listing several, then added that gun violence is in the top five causes of death under age 65.
You challenged me to give a citation for that statement.
I linked the exact page from the CDC with that statement.
You returned saying that page 11, a set of pie charts, did not apparently support the CDC's own statement.
I then posted the pie charts and explained that they have nothing in them to refute or question their summary conclusion
You returned to say BUT it doesn't say gun on the chart
I patiently explained that it doesn't say lots of things, the pie chart lumps many discrete causes into larger group for the chart but that you can find the micro data using Wonder, and I gave you a link to that data. The CDC knows how to add and make a list.
You replied, I still don't know who to believe.
Who is saying anything otherwise? Is there some person or organization that is saying gun violence is not in the top five? Why are you questioning this simple collection and presentation of data? See my signature line.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink seems to apply.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by blueash

Let's summarize. A person says he doesn't trust the CDC because it is investigating gun violence as a disease.
I pointed out that the CDC investigates lots of things that are not diseases, listing several, then added that gun violence is in the top five causes of death under age 65.
You challenged me to give a citation for that statement.
I linked the exact page from the CDC with that statement.
You returned saying that page 11, a set of pie charts, did not apparently support the CDC's own statement.
I then posted the pie charts and explained that they have nothing in them to refute or question their summary conclusion
You returned to say BUT it doesn't say gun on the chart
I patiently explained that it doesn't say lots of things, the pie chart lumps many discrete causes into larger group for the chart but that you can find the micro data using Wonder, and I gave you a link to that data. The CDC knows how to add and make a list.
You replied, I still don't know who to believe.
Who is saying anything otherwise? Is there some person or organization that is saying gun violence is not in the top five? Why are you questioning this simple collection and presentation of data? See my signature line.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink seems to apply.

To repeat what I said in post #51-----

Something tells me it will not convince anyone who ignores experts and "does their own research and makes their own decision"

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by blueash

I extracted this from a longer post because it reflects a lack of understanding, which is correctable by information, if the person is interested in learning.

Are you getting the picture?

Are you angry about that?

So now that you've learned why the CDC is involved in gun violence research, do you now trust it on other issues?

You seem to think I'm angry but your post makes it clear, at least to me, that you're the one that is angry. And condescending. Investigating gun violence was just one example. I didn't think anyone would think it was the sole reason I don't always accept government sources.

The answer to your last question is a resounding, 'no'. You left out an important part of the post. I'll research other sites to refute or validate.

I'll bet you a friendly beer that when the CDC provides its findings it will include remedies such as gun control, gun confiscation, ammo bans and the like. I think it has pre-drawn conclusions and is agenda driven. If this administration was really concerned with gun violence, it would start with law and order initiatives/directives in our inner cities where the vast majority of gun violence occurs. I don't need a CDC study to know that.

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Great post.

But something tells me it will not convince anyone who ignores experts and "does their own research and makes their own decision"

LOL. Another post directed at me. Another 'my way or the highway' type of guy. Geez.

Apparently, you must do the type of research the OP defines on each and every subject. Right!

Science is filled with disputes and conflicting views. That's the nature of it. I'm glad, however, that I've finally found someone that is the definitive source for knowing which experts are correct and which are not.

Originally Posted by stanley

Where is that statistic?

Blueash is incorrect about gun violence being in the top five causes of death. Here are the facts from the CDC.

1. Heart disease: 659,041
2. Cancer: 599,601
3. Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
5. Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005

Leading causes of #3. Accidents
1. Choking
2. Fires
3. Falls
4. Poisoning
5. Car accidents

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by lkagele

LOL. Another post directed at me. Another 'my way or the highway' type of guy. Geez.

Apparently, you must do the type of research the OP defines on each and every subject. Right!

Science is filled with disputes and conflicting views. That's the nature of it. I'm glad, however, that I've finally found someone that is the definitive source for knowing which experts are correct and which are not.

Try not to be paranoid. Nothing was directed at you.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by John41

Blueash is incorrect about gun violence being in the top five causes of death. Here are the facts from the CDC.

1. Heart disease: 659,041
2. Cancer: 599,601
3. Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
5. Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005

Leading causes of #3. Accidents
1. Choking
2. Fires
3. Falls
4. Poisoning
5. Car accidents

Many of these can INCLUDE and INVOLVE gun violence. Here's how:

Heart disease: person was shot, might have survived but because of heart disease, suffered a heart attack and died.

Accidents:
Choking - person was shot, might have survived, but choked to death in the process.
Fires - victim of arson - was shot, but it was the fire that killed them because being shot meant they were incapacitated and couldn't escape.
Falls - shot, and fell. Broken neck is what killed them.
Car accidents - shot while driving or while passenger in a car that veered off the road and killed them.

Lower respiratory disease - shot in an already diseased lung; the other lung wasn't strong enough to keep them alive. Death by disease.

Stroke - being shot triggered a stroke, and they died from the stroke.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Many of these can INCLUDE and INVOLVE gun violence. Here's how:

Heart disease: person was shot, might have survived but because of heart disease, suffered a heart attack and died.

Accidents:
Choking - person was shot, might have survived, but choked to death in the process.
Fires - victim of arson - was shot, but it was the fire that killed them because being shot meant they were incapacitated and couldn't escape.
Falls - shot, and fell. Broken neck is what killed them.
Car accidents - shot while driving or while passenger in a car that veered off the road and killed them.

Lower respiratory disease - shot in an already diseased lung; the other lung wasn't strong enough to keep them alive. Death by disease.

Stroke - being shot triggered a stroke, and they died from the stroke.

LOL that’s funny. I died laughing as I was being shot.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Many of these can INCLUDE and INVOLVE gun violence. Here's how:

Heart disease: person was shot, might have survived but because of heart disease, suffered a heart attack and died.

Accidents:
Choking - person was shot, might have survived, but choked to death in the process.
Fires - victim of arson - was shot, but it was the fire that killed them because being shot meant they were incapacitated and couldn't escape.
Falls - shot, and fell. Broken neck is what killed them.
Car accidents - shot while driving or while passenger in a car that veered off the road and killed them.

Lower respiratory disease - shot in an already diseased lung; the other lung wasn't strong enough to keep them alive. Death by disease.

Stroke - being shot triggered a stroke, and they died from the stroke.

Yeah......kinda like dying with Covid not from Covid and counting it as a Covid death

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by blueash

Let's summarize. A person says he doesn't trust the CDC because it is investigating gun violence as a disease.
I pointed out that the CDC investigates lots of things that are not diseases, listing several, then added that gun violence is in the top five causes of death under age 65.
You challenged me to give a citation for that statement.
I linked the exact page from the CDC with that statement.
You returned saying that page 11, a set of pie charts, did not apparently support the CDC's own statement.
I then posted the pie charts and explained that they have nothing in them to refute or question their summary conclusion
You returned to say BUT it doesn't say gun on the chart
I patiently explained that it doesn't say lots of things, the pie chart lumps many discrete causes into larger group for the chart but that you can find the micro data using Wonder, and I gave you a link to that data. The CDC knows how to add and make a list.
You replied, I still don't know who to believe.
Who is saying anything otherwise? Is there some person or organization that is saying gun violence is not in the top five? Why are you questioning this simple collection and presentation of data? See my signature line.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink seems to apply.

Perhaps the CDC can investigate why the US gave billions in guns, military vehicles, helicopters and planes to a terrorist army? This is going to contribute to the disease of gun violence I tell ya!

[unialimon]

I can hardly wait to read these posts in 5 years.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by John41

Blueash is incorrect about gun violence being in the top five causes of death. Here are the facts from the CDC.

1. Heart disease: 659,041
2. Cancer: 599,601
3. Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
5. Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005

Leading causes of #3. Accidents
1. Choking
2. Fires
3. Falls
4. Poisoning
5. Car accidents

Reading comprehension, please. I'll once again repeat the statement which I quoted from the CDC...
Gun violence is in the top five causes of death for people from ages 1 to 64.

Now tell me again how I got it wrong. What you listed as the top five, correctly by the way, are deaths for ALL AGES and that means as most Americans die after age 64 that those diseases are what cause deaths in the elderly.

See post 50, 57 and 61 for what I actually wrote as opposed to what you claim I wrote.

Thanks for not correcting me.

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by blueash

Reading comprehension, please. I'll once again repeat the statement which I quoted from the CDC...
Gun violence is in the top five causes of death for people from ages 1 to 64.

Now tell me again how I got it wrong. What you listed as the top five, correctly by the way, are deaths for ALL AGES and that means as most Americans die after age 64 that those diseases are what cause deaths in the elderly.

See post 50, 57 and 61 for what I actually wrote as opposed to what you claim I wrote.

Thanks for not correcting me.

After much thought, I think I can articulate clearly why I don't believe everything the CDC advises and go to trusted sources I've developed to verify or refute its advice. I don't need to be top notch, professional researcher as the OP defines and I understand confirmation bias completely. But if I have reliable sources that actually do that level of research then it becomes easier to refute or verify.

Now to the CDC and firearm violence. Rationalize it any way you want but if you don't believe the CDC has an agenda when it advises on many issues then you're extremely naïve. You have to remember, this is the agency that just days ago ILLEGALLY extended the eviction moratorium in direct violation of the recent Supreme Court decision. Are you really going to try and convince me that's a public health issue and in the CDC's realm of authority? It's not and neither is firearm violence. Provide statistics, fine. But anything other than that, I suspect a hidden agenda.

And here it is. There is no doubt in my mind this is an end run for gun control. The CDC is going to label firearm violence as a 'public health crisis' giving the government perceived authority to implement by executive order a partial or complete gun control order. Mark those words.