[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

Unvaccinated people fly all the time. You don't need to show the airports a vaccination passport.

Sure enough BUT......all passengers must wear masks, even in between bites of food and sips of a drink. I do not want to have to do that on a cruise ship. It is as simple as that.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Interesting advice.

Those boarding international flights must satisfy the requirements of the destination since they will be leaving the plane. I could stay on the ship and never enter another country.

(The laws on entering territorial waters may come into play and might be the loophole needed to get to a resolution.)

There should be no reason to have a loophole. There should have been an exception for cruise lines from the get go. DeSantis blew it and he is paying the price now. If he loses all this revenue from the cruise lines for Florida, he will not be very popular with many people. That is a lot of jobs and a $9 Billion of lost revenue for Florida. Not a very good look, Governor.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Requiring proof of vaccination status has absolutely nothing to do with curiosity. Where in the world did you get that notion? Vaccination status of all those on board a cruise ship is a public health and safety issue to maintain as safe an environment as possible. I don't make those rules, the CDC and the cruise lines make the rules.

Let's face it.....a vaccinated person poses much less risk to those on board a cruise ship than an un-vaccinated person. If you plan to argue that fact, then we can go no further with this discussion.

You say that those on a cruise ship should "take appropriate precautions" regardless of your vaccine status. Are you suggesting that people should have to mask up, social distance and be denied entry to venues on the ship do to capacity limits?

.... (whole lot of stuff removed to save space, especially since this turned out to be long)

Do you trust those two vaccine shots that you took (and insist on advertising) or not? If you do then what risk does an unvaccinated person pose to you?

The last numbers I saw implied that the chance of a vaccinated person contracting covid was about 0.008% (1 out of 13,000). Remember, these were early numbers collected when less than 1/3 of the country had been vaccinated and new infections among unvaccinated people were still very high.

If a cruise ship is bursting at the seams it will still have fewer than 6,000 passengers. At one infection for 13,000 vaccinated people, this means fewer than one-half of a person would be infected. But most cruise passengers would be vaccinated - even a random sample of Americans would have over 60% vaccination rate - and this would lower the chances of encountering an unvaccinated person even more. So less than one-half of one person on a cruise might be expected to contract covid.

So do you trust the vaccine that you took to protect you or don't you? If you do trust it then the unvaccinated passengers pose no risk to you. Take the precautions (your two vaccine shots) to protect yourself then stay out of everyone else's business.

Curiosity. "I'm protected from Covid due to the two vaccine shots that I took but I still want to know whether *you* have been vaccinated because ____" You don't need to know in order to be protected, you need to know because of some other personal reason. I used "curiosity" for a catch-all.

As safe an environment as possible. Be very careful what you wish for. There may be many other things that have better than a 1 in 13,000 chance of affecting you that you wouldn't want to do without. I imagine lowering the speed limit to 50mph and strictly enforcing it would save many lives if we wanted to have as safe an environment as possible. Strictly limiting alcohol on your cruise would help make a safer environment. Avoiding ports in countries with civil unrest or which are known for crime or which have less than first-rate medical facilities would lead to a safer environment.

95% for passengers and 98% for staff. Is there any science behind these numbers or were they chosen because they feel good? If 80% - 90% is a good guess to reach herd immunity then why is 95% the minimum for a safe cruise?

Heck, your grocery store and restaurant don't have a 95% vaccination requirement, do you avoid them because they are not safe enough? There is no study that shows Covid transmission only occurs on cruise ships or on the 2nd day of sailing. There are no cruises today so any new infections (20,000 per day recently?) are occurring at places that you might regularly visit. Are you masking up or requiring proof of vaccinations or are you confident that you are protected by the two vaccine shots you took?

Bottom line is this: I believe the numbers coming out of the vaccine trials and I trust the numbers coming out of the real-world observations. Those who have been vaccinated are protected from the unclean around them. Over 60% of Americans have been vaccinated with that number growing every day so the chance of a vaccinated person meeting one of the unclean is small and decreasing every day. The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Sure enough BUT......all passengers must wear masks, even in between bites of food and sips of a drink. I do not want to have to do that on a cruise ship. It is as simple as that.

At some point, the requirement of masks for air travel will be lifted & cruise lines will be open to everyone. Most stores have already rescinded their mask requirements. The idea that people who opted not to get vaccinated will be punished, will just slowly fade away...

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Skunky1

It is totally up to the captain who he lets on the ship. I truly think the federal government should weigh in on this just like they have mandated mask for the airports and airplanes.

So is it the captain's decision or is it the federal government's decision? The two seem contradictory.

[xcaligirl]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Hope that all passengers and crew have to be vaccinated so we can cruise without a mask while on the ship.

If we need mask do not think we will cruise.

I agree and we're prety "serious cruisers"....probably 40+ times

[Bonnevie]

"The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others."

conversely, the unvaccinated people should accept the consequences of their decision and do the things that don't require a vaccination.

cruise ships were petrie dishes before Covid, so everything should be done for the safety of those who cruise. every unvaccinated person is a possible host for a resistant variant.

[Bonnevie]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

I was on a 2 week S.America/Antarctica cruise when COVID hit. No vaccine, and extremely few on the ship got sick. Two weeks later was on a western Caribbean cruise .... nobody got sick, and we were the last cruise in when they shut the port down. No more ships in or out, but nobody was sick on the ship. It is just an over reaction by the CDC to adhere to the CYA policy.

when covid hit, it was Asia and Europe most affected. you just happened to be in parts of the world where it hadn't hit yet.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

"The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others."

conversely, the unvaccinated people should accept the consequences of their decision and do the things that don't require a vaccination.

cruise ships were petrie dishes before Covid, so everything should be done for the safety of those who cruise. every unvaccinated person is a possible host for a resistant variant.

You make a good point about cruise ships being prone to illnesses even before Covid-19. Legionnaire's disease was one. I can see why they would want to limit the possibility of Covid spreading to even a few passengers and then be stranded offshore.


DeSantis shot himself in the foot trying to enforce that ban on the cruise ships. They called his bluff and simply said We'll go elsewhere. That would have been a large economical blow to Florida.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Do you trust those two vaccine shots that you took (and insist on advertising) or not? If you do then what risk does an unvaccinated person pose to you?

The last numbers I saw implied that the chance of a vaccinated person contracting covid was about 0.008% (1 out of 13,000). Remember, these were early numbers collected when less than 1/3 of the country had been vaccinated and new infections among unvaccinated people were still very high.

If a cruise ship is bursting at the seams it will still have fewer than 6,000 passengers. At one infection for 13,000 vaccinated people, this means fewer than one-half of a person would be infected. But most cruise passengers would be vaccinated - even a random sample of Americans would have over 60% vaccination rate - and this would lower the chances of encountering an unvaccinated person even more. So less than one-half of one person on a cruise might be expected to contract covid.

So do you trust the vaccine that you took to protect you or don't you? If you do trust it then the unvaccinated passengers pose no risk to you. Take the precautions (your two vaccine shots) to protect yourself then stay out of everyone else's business.

Curiosity. "I'm protected from Covid due to the two vaccine shots that I took but I still want to know whether *you* have been vaccinated because ____" You don't need to know in order to be protected, you need to know because of some other personal reason. I used "curiosity" for a catch-all.

As safe an environment as possible. Be very careful what you wish for. There may be many other things that have better than a 1 in 13,000 chance of affecting you that you wouldn't want to do without. I imagine lowering the speed limit to 50mph and strictly enforcing it would save many lives if we wanted to have as safe an environment as possible. Strictly limiting alcohol on your cruise would help make a safer environment. Avoiding ports in countries with civil unrest or which are known for crime or which have less than first-rate medical facilities would lead to a safer environment.

95% for passengers and 98% for staff. Is there any science behind these numbers or were they chosen because they feel good? If 80% - 90% is a good guess to reach herd immunity then why is 95% the minimum for a safe cruise?

Heck, your grocery store and restaurant don't have a 95% vaccination requirement, do you avoid them because they are not safe enough? There is no study that shows Covid transmission only occurs on cruise ships or on the 2nd day of sailing. There are no cruises today so any new infections (20,000 per day recently?) are occurring at places that you might regularly visit. Are you masking up or requiring proof of vaccinations or are you confident that you are protected by the two vaccine shots you took?

Bottom line is this: I believe the numbers coming out of the vaccine trials and I trust the numbers coming out of the real-world observations. Those who have been vaccinated are protected from the unclean around them. Over 60% of Americans have been vaccinated with that number growing every day so the chance of a vaccinated person meeting one of the unclean is small and decreasing every day. The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others.

I most certainly trust the Moderna vaccine I received and, I might add, extremely proud to claim that I have been vaccinated. Wanting to cruise on a ship with 100% vccinated people on board has nothing to do with feeling unsafe. It has everything to do with what the protocols may be if there were an outbreak on a ship that has un-vaccinated people on it.

I trust there will no such problem with an outbreak large enough to negatively impact a cruise on a completely vaccinated ship. Allow un-vaccinated people on board and that is asking for trouble. Trouble I want no part of. Missing ports, having to quarantine, closing down venues on board the ship, and worst of all, turning the ship around and cutting short the cruise. These are very real possibilities and the reasons I do not want to cruise with un-vaccinated people, not that my safety is compromised.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

At some point, the requirement of masks for air travel will be lifted & cruise lines will be open to everyone. Most stores have already rescinded their mask requirements. The idea that people who opted not to get vaccinated will be punished, will just slowly fade away...

I want nothing more than for this to occur, believe me. I trust that all these damn restrictions and protocols will be a thing of the past but only when we reach a herd immunity that will protect everyone.....vaccinated and those who have chosen not to be vaccinated. I do trust that day will come. When is a crap shoot. I have confidence, however, It will occur sooner if more people get themselves vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

"The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others."

conversely, the unvaccinated people should accept the consequences of their decision and do the things that don't require a vaccination.

cruise ships were petrie dishes before Covid, so everything should be done for the safety of those who cruise. every unvaccinated person is a possible host for a resistant variant.

I wish I could like this post 1000 times. Thank you!

[2newyorkers]

I just read that the CDC has approved sailing from US ports beginning in June. For vaccinated travelers no masks and the freedom to choose your own shore excursions. These were 2 concerns I had before I started cruising again.

I hope to be able to cruise from a Florida port and can not understand why DeSantis can't just say that after reconsideration he realizes it would be economically advantageous to go along with the CDC and open Florida ports. There is nothing wrong with saying you were wrong. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. It makes you human and willing to compromise.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by 2newyorkers

I just read that the CDC has approved sailing from US ports beginning in June. For vaccinated travelers no masks and the freedom to choose your own shore excursions. These were 2 concerns I had before I started cruising again.

I hope to be able to cruise from a Florida port and can not understand why DeSantis can't just say that after reconsideration he realizes it would be economically advantageous to go along with the CDC and open Florida ports. There is nothing wrong with saying you were wrong. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. It makes you human and willing to compromise.

That's exactly what I said a couple of pages back. What desantis did, is no different from if he told people at BlueFin that they are not ALLOWED to make their employees wash their hands, and are not ALLOWED to make sure that any pesticides or bait traps are kept away from the food.

The content is different, but the intention is the same. desantis is telling a company that they are not allowed to do whatever they think is necessary to provide a safe experience for their customers. Whether you (the generic you, not you personally) agree that it's safe or not, is not the point. The point is it's not your place to decide what someone else feels is safe for THEIR customers. Just like desantis can't tell your neighbor that he's not allowed to ask to see your vaccine card if you want to come over his house - he can't tell the cruise line that they're not allowed to see your vaccine card if you want to board their ship.

Cruise ships are not open to the public. You have to pay to board. You have to have their permission, and you have to comply with all kinds of rules and regulations in order to enjoy the privilege - not the right - to sail as a passenger on one of their ships. This is another regulation, and they have the right to make it. You have the right to not sail. The governor has the right to whine.

[Boilerman]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That's exactly what I said a couple of pages back. What desantis did, is no different from if he told people at BlueFin that they are not ALLOWED to make their employees wash their hands, and are not ALLOWED to make sure that any pesticides or bait traps are kept away from the food.

The content is different, but the intention is the same. desantis is telling a company that they are not allowed to do whatever they think is necessary to provide a safe experience for their customers. Whether you (the generic you, not you personally) agree that it's safe or not, is not the point. The point is it's not your place to decide what someone else feels is safe for THEIR customers. Just like desantis can't tell your neighbor that he's not allowed to ask to see your vaccine card if you want to come over his house - he can't tell the cruise line that they're not allowed to see your vaccine card if you want to board their ship.

Cruise ships are not open to the public. You have to pay to board. You have to have their permission, and you have to comply with all kinds of rules and regulations in order to enjoy the privilege - not the right - to sail as a passenger on one of their ships. This is another regulation, and they have the right to make it. You have the right to not sail. The governor has the right to whine.

Amen!!!