[Rags123]

It is very unlike me to offer a Presidential quote to offer how I feel on any subject, but this one has me conflicted and I think President Obama said it best...

"When asked by Diaz-Balart how he might have reacted if he'd been president on 9/11, Obama said he didn't want to discuss hypothetical situations.

However, he added that "nobody can fully understand what it was like to be responsible for the safety and security of the American people in the aftermath of the worst attack on our national soil."

President Obama: CIA's Post-9/11 Torture Was 'Contrary to Who We Are' - NBC News

[billethkid]

here is a news flash for some of the polarized thinkers....some of us do not need the party line or a need to lash out at the other party in order to formulate an opinion.

I know it is a stretch challenge....but try to look at the issues being presented and the comments being made and the (here comes the challenge) formulate YOUR OWN opinion of right or wrong.

I know it is a further challenge for some to believe others can make a decision wothout regard for party affiliation, religion or race......really it does happen more and more.

Too many are arm chair quarter backs....no skin in the game....no personal investment or loss in the scenario and hence can maintain the lofty unreasonable positions like those of the prime sponsor of the bill.

Plain and simple the release was uncalled for in the world we live in today. To maintain an agenda the sponsor chose to make a fool of the USA and put more USA citizens and or assets in danger. However as proven in recents weeks and months....that does not matter one bit against the priorities of the agenda.

[Serenoa]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Too many are arm chair quarter backs....no skin in the game....no personal investment or loss in the scenario and hence can maintain the lofty unreasonable positions like those of the prime sponsor of the bill.

Since you or no one else answered my earlier challenge, I guess y'all must regard John McCain as one of those "armchair quarterbacks" with "lofty, unreasonable positions".

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Serenoa

Since you or no one else answered my earlier challenge, I guess y'all must regard John McCain as one of those "armchair quarterbacks" with "lofty, unreasonable positions".

My post number 19 addresses your challenge.

There is not need to have a political bias to have an opinion or belief on this issue. To constantly be trying to fit the thread into a political pigeon hole of convenience adds no value at least to those who think/feel as I do.
Just as it adds no value to try to roll back the who made a fool of whom back in the Bush administration.

With a time machine pehaps we could change or affect the outcome of the past.
Since they are not readily available the best value to add is on those issues that affect the here and now. These we can do something about. It is an impediment to making forward progress when constantly trying to go back in time.

The issue up for discussion is the merit or lack thereof regarding the CURRENT release of a report that is questionable and most certainly does not add any value for the world's view of the USA AND puts American assets at risk.

How can that possible be viewed a good or adding value?

[xNYer]

You can't resist political agendas with the conservative affirmations from the same cast of characters.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Calling torture enhanced interrogation is like calling rape enhanced dating.

GOOD ONE!!!! Some even die during this enhanced interrogation.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Not at all. You and most of us have an understanding of what exactly constitutes rape.

There are very few who understand what exactly constitutes torture and less to none comprehend what enhanced interrogation even means.

And who and where was it stated that torture had anything to do with enhanced interrogation?

The use of rape is what I call a lateral arabesque....nothing to do with the subject but throw it in for distraction!!!

Fortunately with this report, we now know what enhanced interrogation means to the some in the CIA of which Bush was unaware. However, when he did, he was able to stop it since he along with several others (McCain) considered this enhanced interrogation torture and do not condone it.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by l2ridehd

Just one more of many examples of the media and left wing politicians doing what ever they can to make this country the laughing stock of the world while trying to destroy us.

Most of the world is looking at as many details of this report as available in order to enhance their own interrogation capabilities. And will use this as an excuse to torture our war fighters even more when captured.

Diane Fienstein should be arrested and tried as a traitor. In most countries she would be.

Really!!!!

[l2ridehd]

[/QUOTE]So.....could any of you who are here defending Bush & Cheney, torture (enhanced interrogation or whatever you prefer to call it) & the benefits of it that you claim look Sen. McCain in the eye & tell him he's wrong? I really doubt it.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely could and would if given a chance.

I am very sorry that he was captured and held prisoner of war. I to was a pilot (F-111) during Vietnam and we all knew our risks and what would happen if we were shot down and captured. He was one of the unlucky ones. I applaud him for his bravery, for his service, and for the horrible treatment he received. I do understand why he takes the position he does, but I do not support his current positions on this and many other issues. And if I was voting in Arizona, would not vote for him.

I don't like it, but unfortunately we have to do things to protect our country from those that wish to destroy it and kill us. And if you don't believe that is what they want to do than you are being very naive.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Serenoa

Since you or no one else answered my earlier challenge, I guess y'all must regard John McCain as one of those "armchair quarterbacks" with "lofty, unreasonable positions".

I do not so regard him. I simply regard him as totally wrong on this issue.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Serenoa

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is bucking much of his party and coming to the defense of a Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA’s controversial interrogation tactics.

“It’s a thorough study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose to secure actionable intelligence... but actually damaged our security interests as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world,” McCain said in a speech on the Senate floor shortly after the report was released.
“I believe the American people have a right — indeed, a responsibility — to know what was done in their name, how these practices did or did not serve their interests and how they comported our most important values,” he said.

McCain, who was kept as a prisoner of war for five years during the Vietnam War, has been one of the most vocal critics of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods used during former President George W. Bush’s administration.

McCain comes to defense of CIA critics



So.....could any of you who are here defending Bush & Cheney, torture (enhanced interrogation or whatever you prefer to call it) & the benefits of it that you claim look Sen. McCain in the eye & tell him he's wrong? I really doubt it.

I answered your question in a separate post. Now let me ask you one, if it would save the lives of your children by preventing a terrorist attack which would result in their deaths, would or would you not resort to the tactics used by the CIA? A yes or no answer, with an explanation if you would like, would help me understand your reasoning.

Remember that, like it or not and despite the Senate Report, torture (assume, for the sake of argument, that what the CIA did was torture) is very successful in extracting information from recalcitrant people. That is why torture has been used for thousands of years for that purpose. For the Senate Democrats to say otherwise is either naive or a lie. For the CIA's view of the success of their methods: Hayden slams Senate report, claims CIA interrogations yielded 'Home Depot'-sized trove of intel | Fox News

Also remember that before we captured the subject terrorists, we were trying to kill them in any way we could--shooting, slitting their throats, drone attacks, bombs, you name it. Is killing these guys in cold blood somehow less objectionable than waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and more gruesome but not fatal techniques? War is hell, but what we have now is worse than war because, in modern warfare, even the bad guys follow some basic rules. The psychopaths that we are up against now do not.

[rubicon]

It is clear that the Interrogation Study is the sole product of liberal Democrats who cherry picked their facts. The report itself reeks of confirmation bias.
and finally its only purpose is to politically damage the Republicans.

It is also clear that the techniques applied were not simply for pleasure but because operatives were operating on several threatening scenario that could harm Americans following 9/11

The present majority party for the past six years damaged and demoralized the military, local police enforcements and now the CIA. This threatens our society both domestically and abroad.

Finally it is quite clear that liberals cannot govern either domestically or with our defense and foreign policies

[Pointer]

I'm not sure all this transparency is helping. We are in a time, thanks to technology, where we are privy to so much information that's so unprecedented that how we navigate this is a learning curve, that I fear is going to take some time and maybe even a generation or two to get a handle on.

I miss the days when we were able to be unaware of all the details and trust that our American values protected us and much of the world. A lot of which I would have called our integrity and what's right and wrong.

The best that I can do is to live a life, that sets an example, with a loving heart for the human race as a whole. I'd rather not sink to our enemy's level of barbaric and inhumane treatment, that I feel does much to furthers their cause. We must take a stand for humanity. For if not us then who?

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Pointer

I'm not sure all this transparency is helping. We are in a time, thanks to technology, where we are privy to so much information that's so unprecedented that how we navigate this is a learning curve, that I fear is going to take some time and maybe even a generation or two to get a handle on.

I miss the days when we were able to be unaware of all the details and trust that our American values protected us and much of the world. A lot of which I would have called our integrity and what's right and wrong.

The best that I can do is to live a life, that sets an example, with a loving heart for the human race as a whole. I'd rather not sink to our enemy's level of barbaric and inhumane treatment, that I feel does much to furthers their cause. We must take a stand for humanity. For if not us then who?

I suppose it is pick and choose what is shared....

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The State Department has failed to turn over government documents covering Hillary Rodham Clinton's tenure as secretary of state that The Associated Press and others requested under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act ahead of her presumptive presidential campaign. They include one request AP made four years ago and others pending for more than one year.

The agency already has missed deadlines it set for itself to turn over the material."

Delays plague Hillary Clinton's State Dept. files

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Pointer

The best that I can do is to live a life, that sets an example, with a loving heart for the human race as a whole. I'd rather not sink to our enemy's level of barbaric and inhumane treatment, that I feel does much to furthers their cause. We must take a stand for humanity. For if not us then who?

Let's imagine, for example, you had the opportunity to present your approach, face to face, to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS. Do you think he would be impressed with your "humanity" and the nobleness of it all? Do you perhaps think he would say, hey this chap has a point, and pledge to forego killing infidels and swear off machine gunning prisoners, or (literally) crucifying infidels and captives?

Like it or not, we live in a very dangerous world and either we defend ourselves and our kids ... or we take a lot of casualties. The most effective way to stand for humanity is to defeat barbarism ... however you have to do it.