[Rags123]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Prime Minister Maliki would not provide immunity to our military. They were there for ten years. How long should they stay - 20 years, 30 years, 40 years?

The American people spoke loud and clear about what they wanted to happen to the Iraq was, twice. The choice could not have been clearer.

The Iraq war already cost the US over two trillion dollars, which will probably be much higher by the time all the wounded are treated. Forty five hundred US military died and over 100,000 Iraqis died.

"When the Iraqis step up, we will step down". How many times did we hear that mantra?

t

To try and avoid all the spin going on.....

"The leaders of all the major Iraqi parties had privately told American commanders that they wanted several thousand military personnel to remain, to train Iraqi forces and to help track down insurgents. The commanders told me that Maliki, too, said that he wanted to keep troops in Iraq. But he argued that the long-standing agreement that gave American soldiers immunity from Iraqi courts was increasingly unpopular; parliament would forbid the troops to stay unless they were subject to local law.

President Obama, too, was ambivalent about retaining even a small force in Iraq. For several months, American officials told me, they were unable to answer basic questions in meetings with Iraqis—like how many troops they wanted to leave behind—because the Administration had not decided. “We got no guidance from the White House,” Jeffrey told me. “We didn’t know where the President was. Maliki kept saying, ‘I don’t know what I have to sell.’ ” At one meeting, Maliki said that he was willing to sign an executive agreement granting the soldiers permission to stay, if he didn’t have to persuade the parliament to accept immunity. The Obama Administration quickly rejected the idea. “The American attitude was: Let’s get out of here as quickly as possible,” Sami al-Askari, the Iraqi member of parliament, said."

Obama

We left despite being advised not to do it in this manner...which is how we got here. A bi partisan group of senators told the president that we could get an agreement and he said no. His own military advisors advised not to do it, but he did.

Trying to make this partisan is hopeless. Let's solve this....do not ignore as we have Syria and others and listen to advice on afghanastan.

Everyone uses Iraq to do nothing but make some political points..waste of time.

We need to protect US....this is not, nor ever has been about oil, not about religious sects or whatever people say. These are people who have vowed for many years.....MANY..to,kill us...before Bush..before Clinton..

Look..we ignored Syria...still killing children there...we are allowing Iran and Russia to exert influence.

Talk all you want about Mid East..religious sects, etc....fact is....we have to be involved...it is in our best interest. Just as we have to be involved in many places.

It is a tough world....not one that is softened by pretty speeches...in addition to all the crumbling countries in the world, we have about 35,000 illegal immigrants coming into Texas every day, mostly Central American criminals. It is time to enforce the law, and start protecting our country. No more speeches....Iraq requires our action NOW....I hate war..I hate bloodshed....I also hate hearing about children in Syria being gunned down while WE watch and talk...I hate hearing about the brutality in Iraq. We are being threatened from within and without.

Either we step to,the plate or we just wait until all,of this comes home....that will really screw up tee times.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Rags123

t

To try and avoid all the spin going on.....

"The leaders of all the major Iraqi parties had privately told American commanders that they wanted several thousand military personnel to remain, to train Iraqi forces and to help track down insurgents. The commanders told me that Maliki, too, said that he wanted to keep troops in Iraq. But he argued that the long-standing agreement that gave American soldiers immunity from Iraqi courts was increasingly unpopular; parliament would forbid the troops to stay unless they were subject to local law.

President Obama, too, was ambivalent about retaining even a small force in Iraq. For several months, American officials told me, they were unable to answer basic questions in meetings with Iraqis—like how many troops they wanted to leave behind—because the Administration had not decided. “We got no guidance from the White House,” Jeffrey told me. “We didn’t know where the President was. Maliki kept saying, ‘I don’t know what I have to sell.’ ” At one meeting, Maliki said that he was willing to sign an executive agreement granting the soldiers permission to stay, if he didn’t have to persuade the parliament to accept immunity. The Obama Administration quickly rejected the idea. “The American attitude was: Let’s get out of here as quickly as possible,” Sami al-Askari, the Iraqi member of parliament, said."

Obama

We left despite being advised not to do it in this manner...which is how we got here. A bi partisan group of senators told the president that we could get an agreement and he said no. His own military advisors advised not to do it, but he did.

Trying to make this partisan is hopeless. Let's solve this....do not ignore as we have Syria and others and listen to advice on afghanastan.

Everyone uses Iraq to do nothing but make some political points..waste of time.

We need to protect US....this is not, nor ever has been about oil, not about religious sects or whatever people say. These are people who have vowed for many years.....MANY..to,kill us...before Bush..before Clinton..

Look..we ignored Syria...still killing children there...we are allowing Iran and Russia to exert influence.

Talk all you want about Mid East..religious sects, etc....fact is....we have to be involved...it is in our best interest. Just as we have to be involved in many places.

It is a tough world....not one that is softened by pretty speeches...in addition to all the crumbling countries in the world, we have about 35,000 illegal immigrants coming into Texas every day, mostly Central American criminals. It is time to enforce the law, and start protecting our country. No more speeches....Iraq requires our action NOW....I hate war..I hate bloodshed....I also hate hearing about children in Syria being gunned down while WE watch and talk...I hate hearing about the brutality in Iraq. We are being threatened from within and without.

Either we step to,the plate or we just wait until all,of this comes home....that will really screw up tee times.

Good post to help those who are party polarized understand that some of the reality of what is really going on....not just the talking points Brian what's his name on NBC parrots every day.

Thanx for the additional insight....and opinion.

[Carl in Tampa]

Many of my generation are trapped in a difficult dichotomy of opinion regarding our obligation regarding human rights in other countries.

The inaction of other nations during the German purge of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, the mental defective and other minority groups prior to and during WWII, left compassionate people everywhere with a sense of guilt for the inaction. The result is an internal urge to intervene in other countries where human rights are abused by the ruling class.

In addition, in the late 1970's made intervention in the affairs of foreign governments to establish human rights an official foreign policy of our government.

But, in practice we have found that "nation building," attempting to instill democratic forms of government in other countries, has often failed, particularly in those accustomed to a tribal form of authoritarian government.

A more recent concept is that "we cannot be the World Police," and that we should not intervene in the internal conflicts and Civil Wars of other countries. There are voices today saying that we should simply let the Shia and Sunni factions of Islam fight it out. A prospective female candidate for has said that the five terrorist leaders recently released from Guantanamo are the problems of Afghanistan and Iraq, not ours.

So...........where do your sentiments lie?

.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Its made from sugarcane.
Wikipedia

Brazil’s 37-year-old ethanol fuel program is based on the most efficient agricultural technology for sugarcane cultivation in the world,[12] uses modern equipment and cheap sugar cane as feedstock, the residual cane-waste (bagasse) is used to produce heat and power, which results in a very competitive price and also in a high energy balance (output energy/input energy), which varies from 8.3 for average conditions to 10.2 for best practice production

Or we could simply take the gazillions of barrels of oil that sit right underneath our own country. Or better yet, begin converting over to natural gas, which we have an unlimited supply of and burns cleaner and more efficiently.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Why is this thread which is obviously extremely political being allowed to continue?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Why is this thread which is obviously extremely political being allowed to continue?

Wondered that myself.

[Moderator]

This thread was primarily about a current events topic but the discussion, though very spirited, is starting to edge too much into the political arena and is now bringing out the questioners about why it was left open.

As it seems to be heading downhill, it will be closed.