[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Talk about a broad brush. I don't want to be argumentative but it's not like we have kept our paws out of the Middle East the last 50 years or so. We have propped up and supported dictators, we have supported militaries who have been less than kind to their people, we have placed ourselves in the middle of civil wars and have taken and supported militaries of one Muslim country against another only to turn around years later and oppose the one we supported before. We have built US bases in their countries. You know before we start blaming all Muslims and calling them all out maybe we should get out of the middle east all together. Besides I am sick of supplying US blood to protect big oil companies who are under no obligation to sell their oil to the US and even going as far as giving them massive tax breaks along the way. They don't pay taxes and they therefore don't deserve or pay for their protection.

Lets just stop the support of all aid and let them try to make a living selling oil to India and china. Get out of the Middle East so we don't have to live the rest of our lives scared that Muslims might move to the US.

I, personally...and it surely may be just me, but I am so confused about some of these posts.

They seem to justify killing of people in the name of Islam, and then somehow get linked to then USA, and oil. They then criticize those who fear people who threaten death and follow up and kill. They talk about big business and such and seem to defend everything that is not of this country.

I have seen NOT ONE POST speak ill of a Muslim because of their religion. I have seen people express fear of the factions that are aggressively working into every fiber and trying very hard to make us feel guilty for our fear.

To even suggest simply giving up and turning all interests in the Mid East to anyone is mind boggling naive. To even suggest that we have no interest in other elections (while much is done from outside to influence ours) TO ME shows a complete lack of understanding of the real world.

It is, to me, very scary that people feel that way.

I am not in anyway being political Mr Moderator and apologize because I do not express myself well, but to have the USA criticized in a thread where concern is expressed over a Muslim march which has PUBLICLY STATED ITS POLITICAL GOALS shakes me quite a bit.

If a discussion of Mid East policy is allowed on here, perhaps the suggestions of running , abolishing interest, etc would be fine, but the defense of killers, either directly or implied, is upsetting to me and to ignore the world as it really is is equally upsetting.

Not political, and I apologize for the rant.

I offer from the new a few reasons to CARE about what is happening..

"Who's Really in Control of Libya's Guns?"

http://transitions.foreignpolicy.com...of_libyas_guns

Iran has 18,000 uranium centrifuges, says outgoing nuclear chief


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...97G0AQ20130817

Syria: 11 killed in attacks against Christians

http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle5032219.ece

Iraq premier warns of weapons smuggled from Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-premier-w...172447549.html

Israel retaliates after Syria shells hit Golan Heights


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08...#ixzz2cHN8VR34

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Talk about a broad brush. I don't want to be argumentative but it's not like we have kept our paws out of the Middle East the last 50 years or so. We have propped up and supported dictators, we have supported militaries who have been less than kind to their people, we have placed ourselves in the middle of civil wars and have taken and supported militaries of one Muslim country against another only to turn around years later and oppose the one we supported before. We have built US bases in their countries. You know before we start blaming all Muslims and calling them all out maybe we should get out of the middle east all together. Besides I am sick of supplying US blood to protect big oil companies who are under no obligation to sell their oil to the US and even going as far as giving them massive tax breaks along the way. They don't pay taxes and they therefore don't deserve or pay for their protection.

Lets just stop the support of all aid and let them try to make a living selling oil to India and china. Get out of the Middle East so we don't have to live the rest of our lives scared that Muslims might move to the US.

You are spot on in my opinion. We really need to have the guts to end our dependency on oil. I'm all for the price of gas going so sky high so that public pressure will be brought on the politicians to do something about this dependency. It seems so odd that whenever this starts to happen, miraculously the price comes back down.

The technology is there; the support is not.

[chachacha]

petroleum products are used as a base for many things we need besides fuel for our cars...i do think we should be using our own resources rather than helping brazil and other countries drill so that we can be their customers~ and the last people we should be dependent upon should be the middle eastern countries. my friend monkei seems to be of divided heart as many of us are when it comes to these complex issues. there just are no easy answers, but i think halting immigration from saudi arabia and some other problematic countries is a good start, as BTK suggested. our first duty is to protect our culture, and there is definitely a culture clash with eastern traditions. it does not make anyone "bad" but just hard to meld together with.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Talk about a broad brush. I don't want to be argumentative but it's not like we have kept our paws out of the Middle East the last 50 years or so. We have propped up and supported dictators, we have supported militaries who have been less than kind to their people, we have placed ourselves in the middle of civil wars and have taken and supported militaries of one Muslim country against another only to turn around years later and oppose the one we supported before. We have built US bases in their countries. You know before we start blaming all Muslims and calling them all out maybe we should get out of the middle east all together. Besides I am sick of supplying US blood to protect big oil companies who are under no obligation to sell their oil to the US and even going as far as giving them massive tax breaks along the way. They don't pay taxes and they therefore don't deserve or pay for their protection.

Lets just stop the support of all aid and let them try to make a living selling oil to India and china. Get out of the Middle East so we don't have to live the rest of our lives scared that Muslims might move to the US.

Let me see if I can summarize what was just said ...

1. When in doubt, blame America first

2. Oil companies are evil, rotten and so forth

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by chachacha

petroleum products are used as a base for many things we need besides fuel for our cars...i do think we should be using our own resources rather than helping brazil and other countries drill so that we can be their customers~ and the last people we should be dependent upon should be the middle eastern countries. my friend monkei seems to be of divided heart as many of us are when it comes to these complex issues. there just are no easy answers, but i think halting immigration from saudi arabia and some other problematic countries is a good start, as BTK suggested. our first duty is to protect our culture, and there is definitely a culture clash with eastern traditions. it does not make anyone "bad" but just hard to meld together with.

Excellent post, and well put as usual Cha.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by CFrance

You are spot on in my opinion. We really need to have the guts to end our dependency on oil. I'm all for the price of gas going so sky high so that public pressure will be brought on the politicians to do something about this dependency. It seems so odd that whenever this starts to happen, miraculously the price comes back down.

The technology is there; the support is not.

The oil thing is interesting and of course related to the mess in the Middle East.

Politicians of both parties have failed since the 70s to fix it ... Monkei is correct in this instance.

Green is good (and I plan to put solar pv panels on my roof) but, per Newtonian physics, solar/wind/bio etc will never have the sheer BTUs of energy needed to power a modern economy.

Whether we like it or not, our economic prosperity is built upon energy ... and for the foreseeable future that will be fossil fuel based. Thus, to get us out of the Middle East, I say unleash the energy business domestically. In addition, that will create tons of jobs for the working man.

Everyone wins ... would be nice to see that instead of fighting over a diminishing pie.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by CFrance

...We really need to have the guts to end our dependency on oil. I'm all for the price of gas going so sky high so that public pressure will be brought on the politicians to do something about this dependency. It seems so odd that whenever this starts to happen, miraculously the price comes back down.

The technology is there; the support is not.

I'm all for ending our dependency on foreign oil, but only if we access our own oil while we slowly bring other resources along. To suddenly pull the plug on carbon fuels would do nothing but throw our economy into a tailspin of massive proportions. We have the oil, coal, etc within our own country. And we can access and use it safely. We need to do so while we continue to develop all the other viable technologies.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

The oil thing is interesting and of course related to the mess in the Middle East.

Politicians of both parties have failed since the 70s to fix it ... Monkei is correct in this instance.

Green is good (and I plan to put solar pv panels on my roof) but, per Newtonian physics, solar/wind/bio etc will never have the sheer BTUs of energy needed to power a modern economy.

Whether we like it or not, our economic prosperity is built upon energy ... and for the foreseeable future that will be fossil fuel based. Thus, to get us out of the Middle East, I say unleash the energy business domestically. In addition, that will create tons of jobs for the working man.

Everyone wins ... would be nice to see that instead of fighting over a diminishing pie.

Okay, I agree with unleashing the energy business domestically.

From what I understand, we aren't all that dependent anymore on the Middle East for our oil. But since it is a finite commodity, we should be developing alternative energy sources as much as possible, and we aren't. Some of the technology is there, but it's being held up by... who? I think the oil industry, the same way General Motor company sabotaged the commuter rail system development in 45 cities back in the '40s.

I wish the lobbying system would be abolished so the country could maybe be run by its citizens and politicians who aren't afraid for their political futures..

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I'm all for ending our dependency on foreign oil, but only if we access our own oil while we slowly bring other resources along. To suddenly pull the plug on carbon fuels would do nothing but throw our economy into a tailspin of massive proportions. We have the oil, coal, etc within our own country. And we can access and use it safely. We need to do so while we continue to develop all the other viable technologies.

Agree.

[graciegirl]

There are some mighty fine minds and some really fair and clear headed people on this forum.

Every day I rethink many things.

Thank you friends.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

Let me see if I can summarize what was just said ...

1. When in doubt, blame America first

2. Oil companies are evil, rotten and so forth

Or...

1. When in doubt, always blame someone else.

2. Oil companies donate most of their profits to charity.

I would ask that we all understand the whole situation before we assume guilt.

[Bucco]

Does anyone really believe deep in their heart that if this country totally lost its dependence on oil, that the violence would cease, that the fear indicated in the original thought of this thread would go away, that the hate of this country would stop, that terrorism would ease ?

REALLY ?

You blame oil companies...you blame our energy policies ?

REALLY ?

[billethkid]

I have come to the conclusion that many posts are bait based merely to pull somebodies/anybodies string!!!
In addition many are contrarian just on principle....agree with no one and always promote an opposite where possible....similar to baiting.

Opinions and beliefs are one matter. And we can/should all be able to tolerate another's position....I did not say like or support it.

Much of the above is why the political forum does not exist today.

Many of our world's situations defy logic.

Like remaining dependent on foreign oil when we have the resources domestically.

Not actively, aggressively pursuing energy independence. The jobs impact would be stagerring.

Continuous monetary support for governments that dislike the USA and it's people.

The USA cannot buy it's way or talk it's way into being popular or respected. Most froeign countries respect action and results....not just a wave of the check book.

And so on. Far too many of the positions taken in world events unfortunately require the USA to do for others what it is not doing for it's own people. It is called politics. That which is not dependent on any one issue like oil for example.

Many like to state we are not dependent on foreign oil. If this were true then why does the price of oil spike for the least threatening interruption of that foreign supply?

Does anyone except me wonder why the terrorist who are bent on our destruction do not attack the oil supply lines from the mideast? Hint: Muslim impact!!

I do enjoy a good discussion and even a little jousting on the many subjects of world affairs. However it is time to go to something lighterand not so stuck in a rut!

btk

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I'm all for ending our dependency on foreign oil, but only if we access our own oil while we slowly bring other resources along. To suddenly pull the plug on carbon fuels would do nothing but throw our economy into a tailspin of massive proportions. We have the oil, coal, etc within our own country. And we can access and use it safely. We need to do so while we continue to develop all the other viable technologies.

What do you mean OUR oil? It is and always has been the oil companies oil. They can sell it to whom ever they like. Unless congress tells them to sell only to the US it won't happen. However, the same people who call for drill baby drill in our country would never back such a socialistic government take over of big oil.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

Let me see if I can summarize what was just said ...

1. When in doubt, blame America first

2. Oil companies are evil, rotten and so forth

I don't blame America first, however I am not so blind as some to think the USA s never at fault.

You can make your own decisions regarding their actions and their lobby in Washington.