[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Who knows, but I think it has more to do with owner greed than hurting the economy. The poor folks will spend the extra pay and that would help the economy

"Owner greed"........ tells me you do not know many small business owners or what it takes to generate an acceptable living from a small business.

Are you not missing the point that many small businesses that will wind up closing their doors will ONLY put more people out of work.

It is fine to beat the drum for what one believes but all aspects of impact just need to be understood. For some reason that does not seem to be of much consequence or concern in today's environment.

btk

[perrjojo]

I am wondering if the OP has ever owned a business or been responsible for the budget of a business.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Yea, that greedy missypie taking advantage of all those teenagers while she sits in her mansion just counting her money.

I too ran my own business for about 20 years. I had between three and five part time employees to cover the 84 hours a week that we were open. My payroll ran about $1,000 a week. Some of my employees had been with me for several years so they were making well over minimum wage.
I made, after the first few years, between $40,000 and $50,000 per year. To earn that, I often put in 90-100 hours a week.
If I had to double my payroll as the OP is suggesting, I would have had four choices. 1) Raise my prices which may have reduced sales, 2) reduce my personal income 3) let some of my employees go and work more hours myself, 4) let all the employees go, close the doors and collect unemployment while I looked for a job.
Yes, I too was one of those greedy owners.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by billethkid

"Owner greed"........ tells me you do not know many small business owners or what it takes to generate an acceptable living from a small business.

Are you not missing the point that many small businesses that will wind up closing their doors will ONLY put more people out of work.

It is fine to beat the drum for what one believes but all aspects of impact just need to be understood. For some reason that does not seem to be of much consequence or concern in today's environment.

btk

I hear you clearly, but I am sure you are wrong. Small business go under due to incompetent owners, not because they pay too much to their employees.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I hear you clearly, but I am sure you are wrong. Small business go under due to incompetent owners, not because they pay too much to their employees.

They go under for both reasons, just as large businesses do.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

They go under for both reasons, just as large businesses do.

True

[rubicon]

the reason for raising the minimum wage rationale by the fed gov't is based on politics and not market realities. It is no different than unions who make wage demands without accompanying rises in production, quality education etc. it basically is saying I deserve a raise because I say so.

The economy is in deep trouble because of this mentality cheap money is only fueling this faltering economy because productivity is missing competition is being stifled and unemployement has lasted so long that those unemployed have lost their skill sets making them less employable.

do you feel the "love" from all those government freebies

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I hear you clearly, but I am sure you are wrong. Small business go under due to incompetent owners, not because they pay too much to their employees.

This is a statement to emphasize your position. You are entitled to the opinion or "feeling" you may have but if you do not have first hand knowledge or experience you are clearly presenting what you think and not what is the reality of small businesses.


You may be right for some percentage of why businesses go under.....but incorrect as a general statement. They are successful for many reasons. When one's margins are decreased because of legislated increases in wage/payroll expenses without any increase in revenue to offset that increase there is no way for the owners to absorb that type of expense increase.

Most small businesses top expenses are rents, taxes and wages. The income before taxes is a fixed amount.....this fixed amount is reduced when arbutrary legislation dictates wages to be paid. To avoid paying employees "too much" the owners then have no choice but to reduce the number of employees or hours worked. Unlike government entities small businesses do not have the luxury of spending more than they have.

As has been staed in another post, as wages go up so do the cost of all goods which in turn increases prices which in turn comes from the customer, including those who benefit from the increased wages to only pay more for what they used to buy.

This is one of those shouting into a windstorm or corner. The above is not intended to try to change anybody's mind about what they want to promote or believe. Just an obligation to represent the reality of the small business owners plight.

Time to move to a differnt subject for me.

btk

[Ragman]

I was the owner of a small (20 to 30 employees) specialty manufacturing and retail company for over 30 years.

Most of that time both the employees and I were paid a good basic wage with a substantial profit sharing arrangement. If the company made money everybody shared, but no profit no bonus. Amazing how everyone did their best to hold down costs and waste. No guarantees, but opportunities to make more.

Individual health insurance was 100% company paid along with vacation and sick days with the amount based on length of service.

and yes, I made more because the return on invested capital was part of the equation.( everyone does understand the principle of risk capital I hope)

You invest in my business and then you can tell how to run it.

With what small businesses have to put up with today from government on down, I thank God I sold my three generation, 100 year old business a decade or so ago.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I hear you clearly, but I am sure you are wrong. Small business go under due to incompetent owners, not because they pay too much to their employees.

Well in some cases I'm sure that you are correct, but I can tell you that if I had had to double my payroll, I would have gone out of business because of it. Not because I did anything wrong.

[Patty55]

As a former small business owner I loved that I had the freedom of working any 168 hours a week I chose.

As far as the minimum wage group, sad to say that most of them aren't even worth that much. A lot of the workers today are terrible. I paid above the minimum wage to barely adequate workers, the problem with that is they begin to think they are worth it and THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

At Christmas I gave everyone a weeks pay for a bonus and never even received so much as a card in return-one girl wrote "Thank you" when she endorsed the check.

As a "greedy owner", I made the most money when I started out, as I grew the headaches became overwhelming and after matching their FICA and all the assorted BS I actually kept less money for myself.

I provided free health insurance and had one guy complain because we didn't do eyeglass coverage, so he threatened to dump our coverage and move his family onto his wife's company plan...THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

I found these people begrudged my success, my toys and my lifestyle, yet they would never have chosen the sacrifices that I did to get there.

Think about the stupid people you have to deal with on a daily basis. Look at Comcast (IMO, their Christmas party must be like a stupidity convention), I'm sure their people make over the minimum and get benefits. Has it raised the level of competence?

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Patty55

As a former small business owner I loved that I had the freedom of working any 168 hours a week I chose.

As far as the minimum wage group, sad to say that most of them aren't even worth that much. A lot of the workers today are terrible. I paid above the minimum wage to barely adequate workers, the problem with that is they begin to think they are worth it and THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

At Christmas I gave everyone a weeks pay for a bonus and never even received so much as a card in return-one girl wrote "Thank you" when she endorsed the check.

As a "greedy owner", I made the most money when I started out, as I grew the headaches became overwhelming and after matching their FICA and all the assorted BS I actually kept less money for myself.

I provided free health insurance and had one guy complain because we didn't do eyeglass coverage, so he threatened to dump our coverage and move his family onto his wife's company plan...THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

I found these people begrudged my success, my toys and my lifestyle, yet they would never have chosen the sacrifices that I did to get there.

Think about the stupid people you have to deal with on a daily basis. Look at Comcast (IMO, their Christmas party must be like a stupidity convention), I'm sure their people make over the minimum and get benefits. Has it raised the level of competence?

That post makes sense. I will reconsider my position. Thanks for a direct response with such honesty.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Ragman

I was the owner of a small (20 to 30 employees) specialty manufacturing and retail company for over 30 years.

Most of that time both the employees and I were paid a good basic wage with a substantial profit sharing arrangement. If the company made money everybody shared, but no profit no bonus. Amazing how everyone did their best to hold down costs and waste. No guarantees, but opportunities to make more.

Individual health insurance was 100% company paid along with vacation and sick days with the amount based on length of service.

and yes, I made more because the return on invested capital was part of the equation.( everyone does understand the principle of risk capital I hope)

You invest in my business and then you can tell how to run it.

With what small businesses have to put up with today from government on down, I thank God I sold my three generation, 100 year old business a decade or so ago.

No, they don't understand the principle of risk capital, nor that a business starter/owner earned that money working 80 hours a week, having little or no vacation, little or no time with their spouse and kids growing up, and paying employees came before paying the owner himself, to support his own family.

And this statement by Patty55 (and her whole post) says it ALL:

"I found these people begrudged my success, my toys and my lifestyle, yet they would never have chosen the sacrifices that I did to get there."

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

No, they don't understand the principle of risk capital, nor that a business starter/owner earned that money working 80 hours a week, having little or no vacation, little or no time with their spouse and kids growing up, and paying employees came before paying the owner himself, to support his own family.

And this statement by Patty55 (and her whole post) says it ALL:

"I found these people begrudged my success, my toys and my lifestyle, yet they would never have chosen the sacrifices that I did to get there."

I agree. She came with reasons that make sense.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As a "greedy owner", I made the most money when I started out, as I grew the headaches became overwhelming and after matching their FICA and all the assorted BS I actually kept less money for myself.

This is another thing that I forgot to mention. Matching FICA in additional unemployment insurance and workers comp insurance all go up when payroll goes up. So tack an addition 11% (approximate) to the additional payroll and you begin to understand what raising the minimum wage does to businesses and the economy.

And I'd someone that advocates a minimum wage of $15.00 to explain to me that if $15.00 is good, why they are not advocating $25.00 or $50.00 or an amount even higher. Wouldn't that give all of these poor minimum wage employees an even better lifestyle?