[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by Jim007

Not in my family, not with my children! My three daughters all in their mid-30's, early 40's, have always provided for their own health ins. They are responsible and certain things come before "fun". Specifically they are, taxes, life & health ins., long term savings for children's college exp., 401K, etc. They have always put their future ahead of their more immediate need for "fun". I don't think we can nor should lump all 20 somethings together, any more than we can or should lump all business owners together.

The VAST majority of patients at TVRH who are less than 40 do NOT have any health insurance. I would say the % that do is less than 20%. Not trying to start an argument - just stating what I see as real facts every day in the hospital. Maybe it's just this area but it is what it is.

[twinklesweep]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

Some "generally speaking" questions:

This is post #65 in a long thread about the minimum wage, and no one has given a moment of thought as to WHY there is a mandated minimum wage to begin with. Could it have something to do with an attempt to "legislate morality"?

Why is it that some of those who recognize themselves as "realistic" seem also to realize that they come across at the same time as "unfeeling," that somehow "realistic" sounds like a good thing whereas "unfeeling" does not?

I too owned an extraordinarily successful small business and was fortunate that when it disappeared virtually overnight to India (and let's leave "greed" out of the equation), I was of retirement age and so it was all right. Maybe that is a selfish thought on my part, but what of those younger hard-working American business owners and their hard-working American employees: Where does it leave them?

I'm "bumping" my own post because, as this thread continues with more about entitlement and minimum wage workers not worth even that much, no one has even addressed why the necessity for legislating a "minimum wage."

Could this suggest that there are unconscionable employers who would pit one potential worker against another to get those who would feel forced to work for no matter how little, if a minimum wage were not defined by law? Really now....

Can anyone suggest other possible scenarios, particularly from those of us who had small businesses prior to retirement? I'm sure there are others.

Originally Posted by Monkei

So by just looking at the photos you were able to determine that THOSE picketing all or some of them spit in food?

Also, you are not paying 15.00 ... You are probable paying pennies on the dollar. I read somewhere that if they increased their sandwiches by 48 cents they could double the salary rate and also include full benefits. To me .48 is a savings compared to what I am paying for emergency room health care.

And, you could choose not to eat at one of the fast food places that chose to take care of their employees ... In fact it would be healthier for you not to anyway.

That leads to an ideal question. Would you pay 50 cents more for a burger at seller A who pays more than min wage and provides full benefits vs regular price for seller B who does neither?

I choose to shop at Costco because of that very reason. Somehow they pay their workers over 40,000 per year and give full benefit to both full time and part time employees while SAMs club pays less than 20,000 and cuts hours to avoid paying benefits, yet Costco made over 500m in profits last quarter. How can that be? You tell me whose employees are more of a drag on the economy?

We were all brought up with different values. And some of us rejected the values with which we were brought up. My parents would spin in their graves if I were ever to do such a thing. I was brought up to serve; some might find this laughable—and that's okay. It reflects on those laughing, not on me.

As a consequence, in a breath I would happily spend 50 cents more for a burger knowing that employees of that business were respected enough by the fair shake their employers were giving them. My experience is that employees express their gratitude for an extra day off with pay to handle a family crisis or for a Christmas bonus that reflects not only the success of the business that year but also that they are much of the basis for that success. Their gratitude came from my attitude and only indirectly from my pocket! Confusing? Not to those who understand!

Some would say that the burger would cost too much. I would say that I can choose to prioritize, for example, having one less burger a month to be able to buy burgers the rest of the time that result in a decent wage for the workers of that business. If we support businesses like that, then employees recognize their value from outside the company itself; they already recognize it from within by the willingness of their employers to forgo some profit in support of them. This is what I mean by "attitude." (And as I said in my original post, let's leave "greed" out of the equation....)

And I wonder if some would object to this as some kind of socialistic experiment (imagine paying a decent wage AND providing benefits!?) and refuse to patronize an establishment like this.... I don't know that this might be the case, but anything is possible.

I too shop Costco; and I too would be spinning in my grave in advance, so to speak, should I set foot in Sam's Club. (If I were a wagering person, I would bet that Sam Walton is spinning in his grave!) The only time I shop at Walmart is when what I need is simply not available anywhere else, and even then I feel uncomfortable. "But things are so much cheaper at Walmart!" I'm told. Yes, I guess they are, and so what? In reality we all have a price, sometimes measurable in dollars and cents—and at other times measured in sense without the dollars....

[Indydealmaker]

If you live or own in The Villages, you are one of over 100,000 people who CHOSE not to stay mired in a minimum wage job.

[TrappedCorrectCoaster]

We need to start paying a living wage not a minimum wage. Look at Costco they pay a living wage and have record profits. Companies that are big or small who don't pay a living wage deserve to go out of business. If your employees can't afford your products then your business model is not a good one!

[poker0814]

see how you would like it if the minimum wage was $15 and the next time you went to Mcdonalds, it cost $4.50 for a small fries

[twinklesweep]

Originally Posted by poker0814

see how you would like it if the minimum wage was $15 and the next time you went to Mcdonalds, it cost $4.50 for a small fries

If I were willing to eat at McDonald’s (which I’m not—but that’s a whole other thread), I would have no problem paying $4.50 for a small order of fries if I knew that it meant that the workers were earning a decent living wage. Too expensive? Then, as I wrote in my previous post, I would juggle my priorities and perhaps eat out less frequently and/or make other changes that would allow me, frankly, to live with myself.

For goodness sakes, these workers are our fellow citizens! We were all working people at one time, and yes, some of us (myself included) owned small businesses as well. Do we improve our lot in life by diminishing that of others? To each her or his own, I guess, but for myself (and this is how I was brought up), I would find that unconscionable! I just don’t get it when working people are pitted against other working people. It’s not hard to see who benefits when this attitude is encouraged….

[Wi11iam]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I hear you clearly, but I am sure you are wrong. Small business go under due to incompetent owners, not because they pay too much to their employees.

One question which has been asked over and over, have you ever owned your own business????

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Wi11iam

One question which has been asked over and over, have you ever owned your own business????

Yes.

[DougB]

Originally Posted by Wi11iam

One question which has been asked over and over, have you ever owned your own business????

Yes

[graciegirl]

How'd that go for ya?

I am sorry guys. I love you both but I just had to open my small delicate mouth.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

If I were willing to eat at McDonald’s (which I’m not—but that’s a whole other thread), I would have no problem paying $4.50 for a small order of fries if I knew that it meant that the workers were earning a decent living wage. Too expensive? Then, as I wrote in my previous post, I would juggle my priorities and perhaps eat out less frequently and/or make other changes that would allow me, frankly, to live with myself.

For goodness sakes, these workers are our fellow citizens! We were all working people at one time, and yes, some of us (myself included) owned small businesses as well. Do we improve our lot in life by diminishing that of others? To each her or his own, I guess, but for myself (and this is how I was brought up), I would find that unconscionable! I just don’t get it when working people are pitted against other working people. It’s not hard to see who benefits when this attitude is encouraged….

Twinklesweep, please do not think that ALL people who do not support the minimum wage being at $15 dollars or making it so everyone has a "liveable wage" whatever that is, are not fair, kind, and caring of other people. Some are, maybe many are. But the person who said that most of us got here to The Villages by climbing the ladder of wage and work is probably right in my opinion. I haven't run into any trust fund babies here yet.

It is not only a matter of economics, where changing this would bring on an escalation of all prices, even for the low end of the wage earners, but taking away the way we are allowed and encouraged to begin humbly and work and make a better life for ourselves is just as bad if not worse than what you call entitlement. And that nasty stuff does exist, I am ashamed to say. This is my opinion, based on starting with very, VERY little and having more than I need to survive NOW, which I call rich.

I view the passage of my family from childhood and dependent financial living and their work history with great pride and see that most people who are able minded and able bodied and for whom college is too hard or not an option can start out with the current minimum wage and be able to make a good life for themselves. They may have to work two jobs when they are young like many people have in the past. I think how to live inside your income, even if it is low, needs to be taught to all children.

Making things real easy is often not the answer to social problems. Of course the needs of disabled on unable people who have no family calls to be taken care of by the rest of us, the government or by the social system. Unfortunately, whether it is true or not, a recent poll published last week says that 62% of the American people feel people take advantage of food stamps.

I see your kind heart and the kind hearts of those who support these ideas, but I have lived long enough to see that if you make things easy, you enable a good deal of laziness and help far fewer than you hurt.

It is important that people learn to take care of themselves and their own families...IF they can and that means doing without and sacrificing and saving and not thinking that what the people who have worked and saved and sacrificed for years, what THEY own and have is something you deserve at the beginning.

You would be willing to pay $4.50 for a burger at McDonalds because you have $4.50 to pay.

[gomoho]

Nicely said Gracie.

[buggyone]

What is not being addressed in all these replies is that the minimum wage (no matter what it is) represents the lowest wage paid. All other wages and salaries are above it. Therefore, all other wages and salaries would have to be increased in the same proportion as the minimum wage to keep things on an equal footing. Double the minimum wage and then all other wages would double, prices would keep up with that increase so profits would keep up, and there is no winner. Losers would include retirees as their Social Security would certainly lag far behind for a long time.

[Villages PL]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet but I would like to see "minimum wage" abolished.

When I was a young man I wanted a job very badly. I applied for a job as a helper in an automotive paint/repair shop. I was told they were looking for someone with experience. Minimum wage was about $1.25 at that time. I told the owner I would work for .75 cents per hour just to gain some skills. And he said, "I can't do that, that's against the law."

Why should there be a law that stands between business owners and prospective employees? Let there be FREE markets!!! Stop dictating wages and let supply and demand work the way it should. More unskilled people would be hired and trained.

[mulligan]

This is exactly what happens with immigrant labor. I personally witnessed a skilled concrete worker quit a $15 per hour foreman's job, and take a job as a laborer for $11 per hour--cash, no benefits, no worker's comp, no unemployment, no records.