[De Lis]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Please expand a little on why you call them that.

I have seen photos on various newspapers of employees working in fast food restaurants doing unspeakable acts on food items. Surely you have seen these over the last couple of weeks!

We are about to set off on yet another long drive across America. We got tired of the fast food drive-thru, so we began going to a shop that sold foot long submarine sandwiches. Did you see the last picture of the man on the Internet??? Made my stomach turn over!

Yes, I know that every business maybe does something like this at one time or another, but the arrogance and stupidity of the people that proudly show it on the Internet tells me of the level of civility / decency / education these people have.

I'm not about to pay a staggering $15.00 for that.

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Yea, I was wondering about that as well. Where is it that you can pay less than minimum wage if you hire for less than 40 hours?

As far as raising the minimum wage to $15.00, why not raise it to $50.00?

The problem with both of those scenarios of course is that the cost of every thing would rise tremendously. Another thing that many people that advocate this kind of thing don't realize is that raising the minimum wage would raise all wages. If MacDonalds begins paying their counter people $15.00, how much would they pay their shift managers that are now making $12.00 who oversee those $15.00 an hour employees? Certainly their salaries would have to be over $15.00 per hour. Based on the current ratio, they would need to be paid about $20.00. The the store manager who is making $18.00 per hour would need to be paid $26.00 per hour.

In another scenario, an employee that has been with a company for over a year and has been give a COLA and a merit increase from $7.79 per hour and is now making $9.00 per hour should not be making the same $15.00 per hour as the new employee hired yesterday.

Raising the minimum wage would have a huge detrimental effect on the cost of living so that the person now getting paid $7.79 per hour would have less buying power than that same person making $15.00.

Raising the minimum wage would hurt everyone and probably hurt the poorest among us the most. But, it would garner a lot of votes for politicians who vote for it.

On the other hand, eliminating the minimum wage and allowing people to take jobs for whatever they and an employer decide is fair would put more people, especially young people working part time summer jobs etc to work.

All true and an excellent post! Yet somehow we have to figure out how to solve some inequities. Today's minimum wage adjusted for inflation and iis more than $2 an hour less than the $2.25 minimum wage in the 1960's. the average age of a minimum wage worker has climbed from teenager to 27 years old. Many minimum wage workers today are not given enough hours to qualify for benefits. So while I agree that doubling the minimum wage to $15 an hour will not solve anything and may force many mom and pop businesses out, there are other issues that need to be looked at too. While I cannot readily cite the sources of my statements, I can relate a personal story of a minimum wage worker. My brother in law graduated stoneybrook univ. in NY in the 1970's with a BS degree. He couldn't find a job and went to work for Burger King. He was soon promoted to night mgr, then day mgr, then store mgr, then area mgr, then district mgr. they sent him to business classes at Wharton and Harvard. When they wanted to open up Europe they chose him and he spent 3 years in London. Then they wanted to open up Asia and again chose him and he lived in Tokyo for 2 years. He's 60 years old and has been retired vey comfortably for 10 years. Not bad for a minimum wage worker!

[gomoho]

BarryRX - that is the way it is supposed to work, but I'll say it again we have lost sight of these jobs being a stepping stone - people now see them as a career!

[billethkid]

the social environment we have allowed to germinate within our society breeds an entitlement type mentallity. For example, no matter how unaffordable new technology and data plans and internet acces can be, "they" all have it....whether they can afford it or not. Then there is an expectation that some way or another, there must be a way to get more money to supplement/subsidize the lifestyle to an almost you owe me attitude.

Some of us remember and still live by the a style that dictates you don't get it until you can afford it. And if you can't....you simply don't. An extreme contrary to today's mentality and to my surprise even supported by those who should know better.

If you don't or didn't earn it....you simply do not get it.....and YOU ARE CERTAINLY NOT ENTITLED!!!!

btk

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

All true and an excellent post! Yet somehow we have to figure out how to solve some inequities. Today's minimum wage adjusted for inflation and iis more than $2 an hour less than the $2.25 minimum wage in the 1960's. the average age of a minimum wage worker has climbed from teenager to 27 years old. Many minimum wage workers today are not given enough hours to qualify for benefits. So while I agree that doubling the minimum wage to $15 an hour will not solve anything and may force many mom and pop businesses out, there are other issues that need to be looked at too. While I cannot readily cite the sources of my statements, I can relate a personal story of a minimum wage worker. My brother in law graduated stoneybrook univ. in NY in the 1970's with a BS degree. He couldn't find a job and went to work for Burger King. He was soon promoted to night mgr, then day mgr, then store mgr, then area mgr, then district mgr. they sent him to business classes at Wharton and Harvard. When they wanted to open up Europe they chose him and he spent 3 years in London. Then they wanted to open up Asia and again chose him and he lived in Tokyo for 2 years. He's 60 years old and has been retired vey comfortably for 10 years. Not bad for a minimum wage worker!

An excellent post and you make some very good points. But aren't some of the problems that you cite the fault of some (not all) of the workers themselves? And can't we place some of the blame on our society and educational system?
Many of the minimum wage workers are not worth the money that they are getting paid. Many have not educated themselves and as another poster pointed out are part of the "I am owed" society that we have become. I believe that the high school drop out rate is the highest that it's ever been so we have many more uneducated people entering the workplace and don't have the skills to advance like your brother-in-law did. Have we not lowered the standards in our educational system to make the drop out rate lower than it even might be had we maintained the standard that we once had? So now we have high school graduates that have what would once have been an eighth grade education.
We also have had many colleges lowering standards in order to admit more students. I taught part time at a college of over 15 years and was continually stunned by the lack of knowledge and intelligence of so many of my students. Many, simply did not belong in college and should have been counseled to go to a trade school. But, we have also developed an attitude in this country that every kid must go to college. You are seen as a failure as a parent if you child doesn't go to college.
Many college's today are more interested in their bottom line and expanding so that they can make more money than they are the education of our future work force. College has become too much of a business today. We have kids graduating colleges that should never have gotten out of high school. Because of this, a high school degree is worthless today and a bachelor's degree, in many cases, is equivalent to what a high diploma once was.
I'm not saying that this is the entire problem and certainly there are some good qualified people out there who are making less than what they should, but there are at least as many who do not do enough to even earn the minimum wage that they get. How is a business supposed to succeed when they need to hire two incompetent people to do the work of one competent employee? On top of that, the government keeps making them pay the incompetent people even more.
There might be some inequity as you say, but I think that most people get pretty much what they deserve.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by De Lis

I have seen photos on various newspapers of employees working in fast food restaurants doing unspeakable acts on food items. Surely you have seen these over the last couple of weeks!

We are about to set off on yet another long drive across America. We got tired of the fast food drive-thru, so we began going to a shop that sold foot long submarine sandwiches. Did you see the last picture of the man on the Internet??? Made my stomach turn over!

Yes, I know that every business maybe does something like this at one time or another, but the arrogance and stupidity of the people that proudly show it on the Internet tells me of the level of civility / decency / education these people have.

I'm not about to pay a staggering $15.00 for that.

So by just looking at the photos you were able to determine that THOSE picketing all or some of them spit in food?

Also, you are not paying 15.00 ... You are probable paying pennies on the dollar. I read somewhere that if they increased their sandwiches by 48 cents they could double the salary rate and also include full benefits. To me .48 is a savings compared to what I am paying for emergency room health care.

And, you could choose not to eat at one of the fast food places that chose to take care of their employees ... In fact it would be healthier for you not to anyway.

That leads to an ideal question. Would you pay 50 cents more for a burger at seller A who pays more than min wage and provides full benefits vs regular price for seller B who does neither?

I choose to shop at Costco because of that very reason. Somehow they pay their workers over 40,000 per year and give full benefit to both full time and part time employees while SAMs club pays less than 20,000 and cuts hours to avoid paying benefits, yet Costco made over 500m in profits last quarter. How can that be? You tell me whose employees are more of a drag on the economy?

[ROCKETMAN]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

I would support $15.00 per hour plus there should be a provision that no amount of hours worked should effect that amount. Hiring for less than 40 hours per week to get around minimum wage needs to be seen for the terible thing it is. These tactics are turning this great nation into a third world for millions of us. If you cannot run a business and pay a living wage, then you should shut the doors and try something else.

Paying $15.00 minimum would put many places out of business. If you want to pay $7.00 for a big mac, that's not realistic. I worked in payroll for a large manufacturer where factory employees made $25.00 doing daywork but that was 10 years ago and now that is down to $15.00 per hour because no way you can compete with china in manufacturing.

[gomoho]

You might want to reread that article - it was done by an undergraduate using numbers only from company owned stores - not the franchises - so it's really not worth the paper it's written on. His own professor said it was not well done.

[Garden guru]

Originally Posted by missypie

We own a small ice cream store in another state. Over the years that we have owned our business we have hired and trained over 125 teenagers. We've given them the opportunity to have their first job ever in a clean and safe environment. We teach them how to answer a phone, work with money, but most importantly how to treat a customer with excellent customer service skills. They learn so many life lessons from us so when they finally leave us after a couple of years then they are highly successful young people ready for the next position in life. This is a personal mission in our lives to try to make a difference.

If we had to pay $15.00 per hour, we could never afford to own our own business. To tell someone to" close your doors and try something else ", does not know a typical mom and pop operation.

I would enjoy meeting you at the next Crisper's meeting where I will be going to for the first time. I would be happy to share what we do with you if you would like to hear.

A minimum wage job for a teenager and a minimum wage job for an adult who's trying to support himself / herself are two different things. If an employer can't afford to pay a decent wage, he shouldn't be an employer. Let's have you support yourself on minimum wage for a few months and see how quickly you're singing a different tune!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Garden guru

A minimum wage job for a teenager and a minimum wage job for an adult who's trying to support himself / herself are two different things. If an employer can't afford to pay a decent wage, he shouldn't be an employer. Let's have you support yourself on minimum wage for a few months and see how quickly you're singing a different tune!

Some money is better than no money and most of us either worked a LOT of hourly hours at the beginning of our careers or knows someone who did.

Small business owners like Missy Pie are not able to cure society's ills. She is trying to make a living herself. Things are just not that simple. No one WANTS people to do without. Necessity is often the mother of invention. A man who I know who lives here, now a very secure person financially worked two jobs for 12 years when he was young. You have to crawl before you can walk. In this country if you get up early and work hard you can be rich. Then people can think you were born with it.

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by Garden guru

A minimum wage job for a teenager and a minimum wage job for an adult who's trying to support himself / herself are two different things. If an employer can't afford to pay a decent wage, he shouldn't be an employer. Let's have you support yourself on minimum wage for a few months and see how quickly you're singing a different tune!

You miss the point of minimum wage jobs entirely. Go back and read BarryXs post number 79.

You need to understand that each and every person working in a minimum wage position has an equal opportunity to move up and on. The sad reality is, even if you don't want to acknowledge it, many many people do not have the internal fortitude, basic upbringing, or desire to do what it takes to earn a living. Does that fact mean that everyone else is obligated to support them?

I can remember when my dad worked for minimum wage, but he worked two jobs and supported 8 kids. We never had much, but we had enough to eat and roof over our heads. Our home was neat, maintained without trash and jacked up cars in the drive. Living responsibly is a choice! In this day and age, you do whatever it takes.

[gomoho]

Sounds like we have some posters that would like to "occupy wall street"!

[justjim]

Originally Posted by De Lis

I have seen photos on various newspapers of employees working in fast food restaurants doing unspeakable acts on food items. Surely you have seen these over the last couple of weeks!

We are about to set off on yet another long drive across America. We got tired of the fast food drive-thru, so we began going to a shop that sold foot long submarine sandwiches. Did you see the last picture of the man on the Internet??? Made my stomach turn over!

Yes, I know that every business maybe does something like this at one time or another, but the arrogance and stupidity of the people that proudly show it on the Internet tells me of the level of civility / decency / education these people have.

I'm not about to pay a staggering $15.00 for that.

With all due respect, I don't believe everything I see on the Internet. Most fast food restaurants i.e. McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, Steak n' Shake, Arby's etc. run a pretty tight and clean ship. The minimum wage has always been debated and probably always will be debated. We went for years without an increase in minimum wages but prices still went up. How do you
account for that? I know it's complicated.......

[Jim007]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

The 20 somethings that are supposed to be buying insurance, now or later, are definitely not the ones earning minimum wage. That is just not going to ever happen unless the employer can find a way to afford it. But the point is that most 20 somethings, regardless of their incomes, have no interest in health insurance. They are invincible and their disposable income goes for fun.

Not in my family, not with my children! My three daughters all in their mid-30's, early 40's, have always provided for their own health ins. They are responsible and certain things come before "fun". Specifically they are, taxes, life & health ins., long term savings for children's college exp., 401K, etc. They have always put their future ahead of their more immediate need for "fun". I don't think we can nor should lump all 20 somethings together, any more than we can or should lump all business owners together.

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by Jim007

Not in my family, not with my children! My three daughters all in their mid-30's, early 40's, have always provided for their own health ins. They are responsible and certain things come before "fun". Specifically they are, taxes, life & health ins., long term savings for children's college exp., 401K, etc. They have always put their future ahead of their more immediate need for "fun". I don't think we can nor should lump all 20 somethings together, any more than we can or should lump all business owners together.

I do agree with you in one aspect. Not ALL 20 somethings are irresponsible. However, all you have to do is observe how most young people act and look at current stats on how many young people do not have health insurance now even though it is cheap and/or subsidized by their employers. Most young adults are not like your three daughters or my own three girls. They, too, learned the value of work ethic from the time they were in high school.