[janmcn]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

An article in todays paper gave a good explaination. Hostess makes Twinkies and Wonder Bread. The union forbid both products, although coming from the same plant, be shipped in the same truck, thus adding additional drivers and trucks. Not only that, workers that loaded twinkies into a truck could not load Wonder Bread and visa versa, adding more union employees. All this added to expenses for the products. An example of unions putting a company out of business as I personally observed at Eastern Air Lines and Pan Am.
My problem is trying to justify if I own a company and want to give people jobs, how can they have the nerve to tell me how much I can pay and what benefits I will provide if I'm within the law? If they don't like it nobody is forcing them to work there. As far as safe working conditions, OSHA is covering that, usually to the extreme. Just my opinion.

How many years did you work for Eastern Air Lines or Pan Am? I worked there for 25 years, and that's not the way I remember it at all. Frank Lorenzo canabalized EAL, turning all the assets over to his other airline, Continental. He was banned from working in the airline industry ever again, but alas that was too late for Eastern, the damage had been done.

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

I can understand that........ Hey, might as well light up a cigarette and enjoy yourself.

Don't smoke..don't drink.

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

An article in todays paper gave a good explaination. Hostess makes Twinkies and Wonder Bread. The union forbid both products, although coming from the same plant, be shipped in the same truck, thus adding additional drivers and trucks. Not only that, workers that loaded twinkies into a truck could not load Wonder Bread and visa versa, adding more union employees. All this added to expenses for the products. An example of unions putting a company out of business as I personally observed at Eastern Air Lines and Pan Am.
My problem is trying to justify if I own a company and want to give people jobs, how can they have the nerve to tell me how much I can pay and what benefits I will provide if I'm within the law? If they don't like it nobody is forcing them to work there. As far as safe working conditions, OSHA is covering that, usually to the extreme. Just my opinion.

Agree with you 100%. And don't forget that unions have a long history of being corrupt, mobbed up and are fond of using criminal violence on people who don't agree with them, including their own members.

[ugotme]

Years ago there was a need for unions - even today some are needed.
No, I have never been a union person - always management.

Although they serve a purpose, when a company is told that you can not transport two different products in the same trucks - BULL!

That is the kind of nonsense that (IMO) gives unions a bad name.

[2 Oldcrabs]

Originally Posted by Mack184

Agree with you 100%. And don't forget that unions have a long history of being corrupt, mobbed up and are fond of using criminal violence on people who don't agree with them, including their own members.

I was a shop stewart and executive board member for an IBEW local for 32 years. Not once did I ever witness any violence toward another member or a member of management. I did witness management screwing the company by getting haircuts, shopping and playing golf on company time. They got bonuses for doing nothing special and got promoted when they screwed up. We had a tough time getting COLA raises. The Unions you are talking about have not existed since the early 70's. Senior Management are the ones "lining their pockets".

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by 2 Oldcrabs

I was a shop stewart and executive board member for an IBEW local for 32 years. Not once did I ever witness any violence toward another member or a member of management. I did witness management screwing the company by getting haircuts, shopping and playing golf on company time. They got bonuses for doing nothing special and got promoted when they screwed up. We had a tough time getting COLA raises. The Unions you are talking about have not existed since the early 70's. Senior Management are the ones "lining their pockets".

Take the time--and it will take some time--to read "The Five Families" by NY Times Crime Editor Selwynn Raab. It is a very long, very expansive & very detailed history of organized crime in the USA. When finished with the book one of the things that the reader will find out that US labor unions are very little more than subsidiary businesses of the mafia which includes time right up to the present. It will very clearly retire the notion that union thuggery & dishonesty stopped in the 70's as you suggest. If someone is a union kool-aid drinker, Raab's facts are not going to sway them, but for those who do not partake of the kool-aid, then it is a very shocking, very eye-opening book.

[Villages PL]

I witnessed first hand a union driving a company out of business. This was a long time ago; I was about 20 years old. This was a small manufactring (job shop) company consisting of about 50 employees. It was the time of year to bargan for the yearly cost-of-living raise and management said they couldn't give any raise because they were experiencing financial dificulty. In other words, they didn't have the money.

I went to a union meeting and was the only one to raise my hand to ask a question. I asked: "How do we know that what they're saying isn't true? Maybe they don't have the money for a raise." To that the union leader suggested I was too young and naive to know any better.

So their plan was to stage a work slow-down until the company saw things their way. They did and the company gave in to their demands. A year later the company filed for bankrupcy.

Did anyone tell me I was right to suspect the company was telling the truth? No, of course not. They started saying that the bankruptcy was the fault of management robbing the company. Unions never think they've done anything wrong.

[Bucco]

ON this subject, be aware that labor unions are beginning a MASSIVE, I mean millions of dollars worth of advertising and lobbying to....

Insure that taxes are raised on the rich, but more importantly that all entitlements programs are never on the table for any cuts in spending. Compromise as mentioned by our government is not mentioned at all nor, it appears, will be tolerated !!

[Mack184]

Originally Posted by Bucco

ON this subject, be aware that labor unions are beginning a MASSIVE, I mean millions of dollars worth of advertising and lobbying to....

Insure that taxes are raised on the rich, but more importantly that all entitlements programs are never on the table for any cuts in spending. Compromise as mentioned by our government is not mentioned at all nor, it appears, will be tolerated !!

Gotta agree with you here..and of course the union leadership will spend the dues of union members no matter what the member thinks of their actions. And since dissent within union ranks gets crushed violently, don't expect too much dissention.

It's sort of hard to discuss this end of the subject without running afoul of the Board Police.

[perrjojo]

Anyone here reading Atlas Shrugged?

[Villages PL]

I think the Twinkie Brand should be purchased by the United States Department of Defense. I believe this would be a valuable asset in time of war.

Here's one example: The U.S. could set up a manufacturing facility in South Korea, to be on standby, whereby Twinkie production could be ramped up at a moments notice. If war breaks out between the north and south, we could produce hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Twinkies daily with round-the-clock production.

We could then drop plane load after plane load of individually wrapped Twinkies over enemy forces. Of course the Twinkie wrappers would have all the ingredients listed in Korean, along with a warning that says, "WARNING: EAT TWINKIES RESPONSIBLY....IN MODERATION ONLY." (However, if North Korean troups are poorly supplied, and hungry, it's not likely they would pay any attention to the warning.) This would be in case we later get charged with a war crime.

So if any harm came to North Korean troups, we would be able to say it was their own fault for not taking personal responsibility.

Got humor?

[CarolSells]

"OK, so no more Twinkies, HoHos, and Ding Dongs, and the company that is going under is blaming its demise on striking workers.
I remember reading the ingredients in a HO HO while standing next to the vending machine in the hall near the student union at Framingham State when it was a college instead of the hoity toity University that it has become by decree. I decided while reading all the preservatives in the thing that if I died after eating one I might remain intact for thousands of years until some archeological project would find my perfectly preserved body and wonder what had kept me so.
So I ask you, when is the last time you ate a Twinkie, a HoHo or a Ding Dong? When is the last time you put one into a kid’s lunch box?
That’s right, the company is going under because they refused to change the formula of their anti-health food at a time when people, especially young people are eating healthier. And the outgoing powers that be would rather blame it on their employees."-john hourihan

[Patty55]

I had a Devil Dog last week-it was great.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by CarolSells

"OK, so no more Twinkies, HoHos, and Ding Dongs, and the company that is going under is blaming its demise on striking workers.
I remember reading the ingredients in a HO HO while standing next to the vending machine in the hall near the student union at Framingham State when it was a college instead of the hoity toity University that it has become by decree. I decided while reading all the preservatives in the thing that if I died after eating one I might remain intact for thousands of years until some archeological project would find my perfectly preserved body and wonder what had kept me so.
So I ask you, when is the last time you ate a Twinkie, a HoHo or a Ding Dong? When is the last time you put one into a kid’s lunch box?
That’s right, the company is going under because they refused to change the formula of their anti-health food at a time when people, especially young people are eating healthier. And the outgoing powers that be would rather blame it on their employees."-john hourihan

Not sure why you would post something that is patently untrue !!!!!!!

The Teamster union already had agreed to concessions to keep the company going and this group in another union there will not and is out talking to the press and NEVER DID THE COMPANY BLAME ANYONE.

Actually, the only comment I saw recently was when the aformentioned union who will not take ANY concessions said that a new buyer was needed, the company simply responded by saying that they have tried that and NOBODY as of yet will buy the company and take on the union contracts.

I have absolutely no information about what the specific issues are in this case, thus I will make no pronouncement as you did about the company blaming this union or about the contents being the demise.

This is the problem...NOBODY will really look at the issues....gee you are supposed to be anti company and pro union so Hostess is wrong...OR...you are supposed to be anti union and pro company so the union is wrong.

These are the new knee jerks reactions to the class warfare in this country...we all pick our side and CEASE LISTENING or HEARING

[lovesports]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Not sure why you would post something that is patently untrue !!!!!!!

The Teamster union already had agreed to concessions to keep the company going and this group in another union there will not and is out talking to the press and NEVER DID THE COMPANY BLAME ANYONE.

Actually, the only comment I saw recently was when the aformentioned union who will not take ANY concessions said that a new buyer was needed, the company simply responded by saying that they have tried that and NOBODY as of yet will buy the company and take on the union contracts.

I have absolutely no information about what the specific issues are in this case, thus I will make no pronouncement as you did about the company blaming this union or about the contents being the demise.


This is the problem...NOBODY will really look at the issues....gee you are supposed to be anti company and pro union so Hostess is wrong...OR...you are supposed to be anti union and pro company so the union is wrong.

These are the new knee jerks reactions to the class warfare in this country...we all pick our side and CEASE LISTENING or HEARING

Please take the first line you wrote and apply it to yourself.
Class warfare is an idea of one political party to use in their campaign and bash the other parties' candidate. I have no doubt you believe what you say but I think you need to listen and hear others! Listen to someone other than those who think just like you.