[blueash]

Originally Posted by Jimturner

What I wanted from the Pres was: Get off the streets, leave this investigation to us, but what I heard was that he understood the anger. He may as well had issued an order to take the streets away from the order of law.

And under what authority would the POTUS order people to get off the streets short of a declaration of nationwide martial law? Instead the POTUS recognized the right to peacefully assemble and protest. And he recognized the importance of it being peaceful and following the well established laws. Further while he acknowledged the distrust people may have in the courts and the police he asked that we all work together to repair that injury.

I am aware that a former NYC mayor has accused Obama of being responsible for the shootings of the NYC officers and here is a fact check on that claim from
Giuliani: Obama 'propaganda' says 'everybody should hate the police' | PunditFact

"Giuliani said Obama has said "that everybody should hate the police."

Throughout all of his comments since August, when the latest unrest over racial disparities in the criminal justice system began, Obama has continuously encouraged working with police to find solutions and make change. He has also repeatedly emphasized the importance of law enforcement in communities of color and the fact that police officers have a dangerous job.

Giuliani’s claim is an outlandish distortion of what Obama actually said. We rate this Pants on Fire."

''Our support for the right to peaceful assembly as well as our opposition to violence and force are well known and we again urge all sides to exercise restraint.''

[Jimturner]

No offense mr ash but my point was when the pres said he could understand their anger, in my opinion, he gave them the ok to riot and loot.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Yes there are bad cops, but not as many bad cops by percentage than horrible law breakers of the group we cannot speak of. If I had to wish that one group would become stronger, it would be the police officers. It is sad when innocent people are killed, but the kind of emphasis you give these scenarios make it appear that you really don't like law enforcement and really are pulling for the folks who get arrested way too frequently because they are doing bad things. I like people for what they do, not the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. There is a HUGE issue with young men in poor areas who do not have a father's influence or an example of a family wage earner turning toward drugs, their use and entering into the business of dealing drugs.

THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE...certainly greater than police officers killing people which does happen and certainly is horrible but it is not the focus of law enforcement nor is it the mindset of the majority of law enforcement.

The media is barking up the wrong tree and the opportunity for the president to make a huge difference to these young people is rapidly slipping away. In this area, I am SO disappointed. Someone needed to holler at them like a dad would.

GG as long as you acknowledge that there are some bad cops and that is all I ask. The big difference between bad cops and bad black males is the government, which means you and I, are responsible for the actions of the cops. I want everyone who deserves arrest and conviction to be equal before the law. Despite the venom from some posters who seem unable to spell my name, I am not anti cop, I am anti bad cop. I am anti bad soldier. I am anti bad black gang member, anti bad white gang member, anti- Madoff, anti- all the bad guys. I am pro truth, pro equality, pro honesty, and progressive.

I have absolutely consistently written that I know that the bad cops are a tiny percentage. I just don't see why people think that bad cops don't exist. I just don't see why people don't understand why people of color might fear the cops more than respect them in some situations. To the credit of the US Military, when Calley massacred over 100 at My Lai the military went after him. The soldiers at Abu Ghraib were fully disciplined. I think there is movement on military rape finally being addressed. I want our civil courts to do as good a job. I call that justice.

And GG I will continue to applaud good policing and continue to criticize bad policing. But you will see, if you look at my posting history do not raise the issue of bad policing except in response to the comments of others who deny it even exists.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Beechie

The cherry picked response from the AG was the politically correct response in light of the rioting etc. However, in other responses he was fanning the flames of hatred as if there was an epidemic of cops killing black men. That is just being intellectually dishonest.

I do think there are many things that need to get done to bring some healing to our communities. Our law enforcement should continue to reach out to all communities and they should reflect, as much as possible, the demographics of their community. They should weed out those rogue individuals that are incapable of fair and just treatment. Black leaders need to be honest about fixing the problems within their communities and get to the source of this systemic problem.

See, we are getting somewhere in a positive way. I agree completely to most of your last paragraph. Now I ask that as you believe that the AG fanned the flames of hatred, please post some not cherry picked quotes that you found fit your definition, which may differ from mine, of fanning the flames.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by Beechie

Let me be clear that I did not claim to be offended by your comments.

Correct me if I am wrong and I certainly don't want to paint all with same brush but your ilk would be those to the left of center with an historical propensity for disdain and/or distrust our men in uniform.

During the Michael Brown trial and eventual rioting in Ferguson, FNC was diametrically opposed to their CNN counterpart. Even though the evidence proved otherwise, CNN continued the whole "White Officer kills another black man" mantra while running the "don't shoot" clip. I also believe that in the Eric Garner case there should have been an indictment of the officer in question as the video was quite compelling.

The cherry picked response from the AG was the politically correct response in light of the rioting etc. However, in other responses he was fanning the flames of hatred as if there was an epidemic of cops killing black men. That is just being intellectually dishonest.

I do think there are many things that need to get done to bring some healing to our communities. Our law enforcement should continue to reach out to all communities and they should reflect, as much as possible, the demographics of their community. They should weed out those rogue individuals that are incapable of fair and just treatment. Black leaders need to be honest about fixing the problems within their communities and get to the source of this systemic problem.

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Apparently the Attorney Generals directions are in place. The media has not mentioned the race of people involved in serious issues when people have been killed or badly injured or shot at in the last couple of weeks.

. Perhaps law enforcement are getting more detail when they are looking for someone but no descriptors using race have been used lately on our local television stations.

GG, there really doesn't have to be a description of race when you see violence just hours afterward, does there? When we see violence, we KNOW
it was a white Officer that shot a black. Think about it, you're sure not going to see "them" rioting when a black officer shoots a black or a black civilian shoots another black civilian, will we. Why aren't "they" protesting the black/black violence?

[jimmemac]

Originally Posted by janmcn

/

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

I want the best police force protecting me, I want the best teachers teaching kids; I don't care what color, sex or nationality they are! When you mandate these things you will not get the best necessarily!!

[Beechie]

Originally Posted by blueash

See, we are getting somewhere in a positive way. I agree completely to most of your last paragraph. Now I ask that as you believe that the AG fanned the flames of hatred, please post some not cherry picked quotes that you found fit your definition, which may differ from mine, of fanning the flames.

Just curious as to what part of my last paragraph were you at odds with blueash? Healing requires both the Police and the Black Community to accept their responsibilities moving forward. A Police Force deemed acceptable to the black community would not equate to the elimination of crime. Respect for the law and fair treatment of it's citizens would make this discussion go away but we need to be honest and leave our pride at the door in order to remedy.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

WHY? I don't see the logic in that. Then we in Sumter County should have white, older, Republican, Church going, solvent people on our police force. I don't know how Lt. Wolfe votes but he is one great, solid looking, diligent, and honorable younger black man and I vote to keep him.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I agree.

Last night I saw just the end of a show on ABC with Steve Harvey who is apparently running some kind of camps for disadvantaged youth without fathers. It sounded like such a GOOD thing to do. Did anyone else see all of it and care to comment?

What Steve Harvey did was a good thing. I did not see it, but what was the percentage of the majority of race of disadvantaged youths without fathers? And the reason I ask that, is that whenever the KC or STL media outlets (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX) show a news segment on a school program giveaway or a government giveaway, etc., the majority shown (in most cases about 95-98%) are black youths. Their parent(s) have had as much of a chance to provide for their children as white parents have had, but chose to take the easy way out.

I was in a KC car dealership yesterday looking to downsize from my pickup to a small vehicle for getting around better in TV. At a table adjacent to me, a black couple was loudly objecting to the sales person and sales manager (both white) the fact they could not get financing on a car and then out it came - "you won't finance us because we're black". The sales manager's response was "no, actually, it's because your credit is horrible and you don't have any down payment". Of course, that's wasn't what they wanted to believe and stormed out, overturning several tables and chairs as they left and my thought was "Typical". Sort of reminded me of the latest violence in the STL suburb of Berkeley going on - the rioters don't want to believe the physical evidence of a black youth pointing a gun at a white officer and getting shot.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

I was on a grand jury for six months (two weeks up front, two weeks in the middle, and two weeks in the back) in Jackson Mississippi. The grand jury reflected the diversity of the community. We had 23 members. A majority vote was required to indict. We talked things through when there were differences and the vast majority of votes were unanimous or near unanimous.

I would keep the grand jury system over a "special prosecutor" (one person) any day. Don't condemn it if you don't know it or understand it. Grand juries go back, I believe, to the Magna Carta.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by blueash

And under what authority would the POTUS order people to get off the streets short of a declaration of nationwide martial law? Instead the POTUS recognized the right to peacefully assemble and protest. And he recognized the importance of it being peaceful and following the well established laws. Further while he acknowledged the distrust people may have in the courts and the police he asked that we all work together to repair that injury.

I am aware that a former NYC mayor has accused Obama of being responsible for the shootings of the NYC officers and here is a fact check on that claim from
Giuliani: Obama 'propaganda' says 'everybody should hate the police' | PunditFact

"Giuliani said Obama has said "that everybody should hate the police."

Throughout all of his comments since August, when the latest unrest over racial disparities in the criminal justice system began, Obama has continuously encouraged working with police to find solutions and make change. He has also repeatedly emphasized the importance of law enforcement in communities of color and the fact that police officers have a dangerous job.

Giuliani’s claim is an outlandish distortion of what Obama actually said. We rate this Pants on Fire."

''Our support for the right to peaceful assembly as well as our opposition to violence and force are well known and we again urge all sides to exercise restraint.''

Here is what is bothering me A LOT.

These "demonstrations" as they are called are making heroes out of criminals.

These "demonstrations" as they are called have been supported a great deal and Sharpton has used for organization at least two communist party groups.

A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition.....ANSWER Coalition Home

Revolution Communist Party of the USA.....Revolution revcom.us

Persue their websites and I will supply some links so you dont think I am a conspiracy theory nut case to show them mentioned in news articles.

So, we have two very active and large communist party groups supporting people who are criminals....I KNOW...I KNOW...not all, but read the background on those arrested. Actually, a "HERO" from Ferguson who was "for peaceful demonstrations" was arrested for arson in the latest.

Why nobody is upset about this is well beyond me. Instead we propose more things to constrict those who enforce the law.

A few links to show I am not making this up.


Some who gathered around a burning police car Nov. 24 wore the trademark mask of Anonymous, the online activist collective. The group, which has taken part in the Ferguson protests since August, released a video three days earlier threatening local police and saying “we are the law now.” Members of the Revolutionary Communist Party have also joined nightly protests, urging demonstrators to defy police orders and risk arrest.

At Ferguson Protests, Pastors, Communists and Everyone Else. The Korean Culture Association? - Bloomberg

"Answer Coalition, organizers of a march on 5th Avenue in midtown Manhattan, said a "peaceful protest against police violence" would continue as planned. "The mayor's call for a suspension of democracy and the exercise of free speech rights in the face of ongoing injustice is outrageous."

NY protesters reject plea for hiatus despite police slayings | Reuters

One of the most frequently quoted and photographed Ferguson protesters was charged Saturday with setting fire to a Berkeley convenience store last week. St. Louis County police arrested Joshua Williams, 19, of St. Louis, on Friday after several local media outlets and store surveillance captured images of him trying to set a pile of wood on fire outside the QuikTrip on North Hanley Road early Wednesday.

Williams confessed to setting fires at the store in a videotaped interview, according to court documents.

“Josh is one of the young activists, and all of us have taken close to him. We got to know his heart, and he got to know ours,” said Bishop Derrick Robinson, of Kingdom Destiny Fellowship International. “He’s a great kid, an educated kid, a child who knows what he wants and is very active in the community.”

Protester who advocates peace charged with setting fire at Berkeley QT : News

These are the folks that we find people BLINDLY supporting and making heroes of them.....recall the guy who was arrested for making the threatening comments about white cops...when arrested IN A BMW, he had marijuana, TWO guns and brass knuckles.

I fear for the direction of this country. WHERE ARE THE LEADERS. Quick to condemn the law KEEPERS and assist, albeit passively, the law BREAKERS.

PLEASE visit these two organizations websites....THESE ARE THE folks allowed to influence the youth

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

GG, there really doesn't have to be a description of race when you see violence just hours afterward, does there? When we see violence, we KNOW
it was a white Officer that shot a black. Think about it, you're sure not going to see "them" rioting when a black officer shoots a black or a black civilian shoots another black civilian, will we. Why aren't "they" protesting the black/black violence?

Police officers may KNOW a lot of things...but Most police officers I know do not bring up race, nor do they use foul language. They treat all people with dignity, unless they start to resist arrest. Most of them are not fixated on race, but aware of where the crime areas are and know the law. They are realists, not racists. They do not try to stir the pot but to pour oil on troubled waters. THAT is my experience with police officers that I know.

But...I personally do not have any dealings with them when they are on duty and I would like to keep it that way. I like being naïve and law abiding..

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by Rags123

Here is what is bothering me A LOT.

These "demonstrations" as they are called are making heroes out of criminals.

These "demonstrations" as they are called have been supported a great deal and Sharpton has used for organization at least two communist party groups.

A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition.....ANSWER Coalition Home

Revolution Communist Party of the USA.....Revolution revcom.us

Persue their websites and I will supply some links so you dont think I am a conspiracy theory nut case to show them mentioned in newyys articles.

So, we have two very active and large communist party groups supporting people who are criminals....I KNOW...I KNOW...not all, but read the background on those arrested. Actually, a "HERO" from Ferguson who was "for peaceful demonstrations" was arrested for arson in the latest.

Why nobody is upset about this is well beyond me. Instead we propose more things to constrict those who enforce the law.

A few links to show I am not making this up.


Some who gathered around a burning police car Nov. 24 wore the trademark mask of Anonymous, the online activist collective. The group, which has taken part in the Ferguson protests since August, released a video three days earlier threatening local police and saying “we are the law now.” Members of the Revolutionary Communist Party have also joined nightly protests, urging demonstrators to defy police orders and risk arrest.

At Ferguson Protests, Pastors, Communists and Everyone Else. The Korean Culture Association? - Bloomberg

"Answer Coalition, organizers of a march on 5th Avenue in midtown Manhattan, said a "peaceful protest against police violence" would continue as planned. "The mayor's call for a suspension of democracy and the exercise of free speech rights in the face of ongoing injustice is outrageous."

NY protesters reject plea for hiatus despite police slayings | Reuters

One of the most frequently quoted and photographed Ferguson protesters was charged Saturday with setting fire to a Berkeley convenience store last week. St. Louis County police arrested Joshua Williams, 19, of St. Louis, on Friday after several local media outlets and store surveillance captured images of him trying to set a pile of wood on fire outside the QuikTrip on North Hanley Road early Wednesday.

Williams confessed to setting fires at the store in a videotaped interview, according to court documents.

“Josh is one of the young activists, and all of us have taken close to him. We got to know his heart, and he got to know ours,” said Bishop Derrick Robinson, of Kingdom Destiny Fellowship International. “He’s a great kid, an educated kid, a child who knows what he wants and is very active in the community.”

Protester who advocates peace charged with setting fire at Berkeley QT : News

These are the folks that we find people BLINDLY supporting and making heroes of them.....recall the guy who was arrested for making the threatening comments about white cops...when arrested IN A BMW, he had marijuana, TWO guns and brass knuckles.

I fear for the direction of this country. WHERE ARE THE LEADERS. Quick to condemn the law KEEPERS and assist, albeit passively, the law BREAKERS.

PLEASE visit these two organizations websites....THESE ARE THE folks allowed to influence the youth

You and I may not like an organization or individuals such as those you mentioned - but doesn't Amendment 1 of the US Constitution guarantee them free speech and freedom of the press? It also guarantees freedom of peaceable assembly. When it is not peaceable, of course, legal steps have to be taken.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

You and I may not like an organization or individuals such as those you mentioned - but doesn't Amendment 1 of the US Constitution guarantee them free speech and freedom of the press? It also guarantees freedom of peaceable assembly. When it is not peaceable, of course, legal steps have to be taken.

I understand the law..no lecture necessary. I just do not like it. You can defend it, but I still do not like it. And I am speaking of the protestors being lead by communists not the constitution.

I heard the President defend those protestors...I heard him speak up and actually laud the NBA players who were publicly supporting them. I have heard a number of high ranking officals laud them. I guess I am just sick of it all.

I know that the one communist party pays for the signs, etc. I am just so sick of the fraud of the entire thing.

You can defend them all you want and join our leaders in defending them...but I am sorry...I am just tired of it all. I am speaking of communists leading black criminal types against those who enforce the law and having leaders from the WH to the mayor NYC actually laud those people.

No....applaud if you want...I will reserve my applause for real heroes, not these media made heroes. As it unwinds as I said and showed, the "heroes" are thugs, sponsored by the communist party.

I want leadership and I do not see this as leadership. I am sure that many will be invited to the WH and have pictures taken....

SOrry for the rant but I cannot join you in your applause...I am disgusted.

And even more because folks like you, will not use the same ammendment to even criticize them....just lecture us on how they have the right. Ok...got it....I have the same right to not like it.

PS: I am struck that anyone who was going to post would have a FIRST reaction to not discuss the intent but to give a mini lecture as if people were not aware of the first ammendment...striking first reaction to me anyway, but ...whatever